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To: HarleyD; Campion

You write:

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Faith comes to us from God and this is saving faith. It is GIVEN to us by God through hearing His words.


Actually, Romans 10 supports the non-Calvinist.

“6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.”

Notice this is about how God seeks us out. God reaching to us, “because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved...For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.”

Faith is what exists when someone hears the Gospel and believes. That is the definition of faith:

“1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another’s ability.

2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.”

If you believe what someone says, you have faith in them. If you believe the Gospel, you have faith in the promise of God. Saving faith is something that YOU do. It is not something God gives, nor does it follow regeneration. It is the cause of regeneration, “because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.”

It is not given irresistibly by God to enable someone to hear - for that is what Calvin argues, that a man cannot hear the Gospel unless God first regenerates him.

The call goes out, but not all respond. “But they have not all obeyed the gospel.” The Gospel starts with the command to repent, and not all do. Most do not. Their choice.

“Do you believe Christ is actually saving all the lost or are there people who He has failed to save? Do you believe that every person that God wants to be saved will be saved and Christ is triumphed in His mission?”

I believe what Paul wrote: “But they have not all obeyed the gospel.” Or as he said in Acts: ““It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.”

He doesn’t say God has denied them life, and thus they cannot believe. He says “Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life...”

There is no claim here that God prevented them from believing. No claim that God refused them, or that God hardened their hearts to prevent their belief. Many reject the Gospel, and many reject the revelation God has given every man:

“For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.”

Notice: “For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him...”

Not that they were dead, and God chose not to regenerate them so they could understand, but “although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him...”

Romans 10:17 does not, in any way, suggest that faith is given by God to man. It instead teaches that men may respond with faith to the Gospel message proclaimed by Christians:

“14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”


176 posted on 06/22/2012 6:53:09 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: Mr Rogers; HarleyD; Campion
Notice: “For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him...”

Not that they were dead, and God chose not to regenerate them so they could understand, but “although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him...”

"And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, - Ephesians 2:1

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins," - Colossians 2:13

Saving faith is something that YOU do. It is not something God gives, nor does it follow regeneration. It is the cause of regeneration,

" . No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. . . For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.' - John 6:44, 65

Cordially,

201 posted on 06/24/2012 5:39:22 AM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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