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To: HarleyD
Augustine's objection to Pelagius was specifically to the idea that the unjustified man could approach God without the aid of grace. It wasn't an unqualified rejection of "free will."

The same Augustine wrote this:

Here is the whole quote: “He was handed over for our offenses, and He rose again for our justification (19).” What does this mean, “for our justification”? So that He might justify us; so that He might make us just. You will be a work of God, not only because you are a man, but also because you are just. For it is better that you be just than that you be a man. If God made you a man, and you made yourself just, something you were doing would be better than what God did. But God made you without any cooperation on your part. For you did not lend your consent so that god could make you. How could you have consented, when you did not exist? But he who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but He does not justify you without you willing it. (Sermon 169)

117 posted on 06/22/2012 5:34:19 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

(Augustine did not write the words “Here is the whole quote,” obviously.)


118 posted on 06/22/2012 5:38:32 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion
What you are quoting from is an earlier time in Augustine's life. You have to follow Augustine's time line. Augustine, "A Treatise of the Predistination of the Saints" is one of Augustine LAST works. Augustine tells how once he understood God's sovereignty, he not only realized how great was his error but he sought to recall many of his writings to burn them. I understand completely what Augustine realized because I went through the same thing.

There is no such thing as "free will". There is God's will and there is man's will. "Free will" implies that one, on their own volition, is fully capable of doing the will of God, which is Pelagius heresy. Christians mistakenly carry this heresy over into their Christian life believing they can make decisions that would be beneficial to God or if they don't do something God might be unhappy or disappointed but that's OK. He still loves us anyway. Every soteriology be it Pelagius, Semi-Pelagius, Catholic/Orthodox, or Arminian teaches this in some degree. But this is not what the scriptures teaches.

The real question is how many of us are willing to burn our life's work over something that we know is wrong like the faithful Augustine did?

138 posted on 06/22/2012 7:11:28 AM PDT by HarleyD
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