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To: istandwithsarah

“The reason why Paul wrote Romans 9 is to explain why not all Jews were saved.”

Ok, but what does Romans 9 say?

“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”

“Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.”

“What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,”

He speaks here of His sovereignty in saving people, it says He has mercy or He hardens, He prepared the vessels of mercy afore. . .

This is predestination, this is election, this is God’s revelation of His ways. There are many other verses that speak of this, I already cited Ephesians and there are so many others.

We all must embrace the whole of Scripture, even if it is difficult to understand.


106 posted on 06/21/2012 11:05:21 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Persevero

The issue with the Calvinist/Arminian/Neither soteriological debate isn’t about embracing Scripture, because this soteriological debate is among those who already embrace Scripture, but have different interpretations of what Scripture says.

This is similar to the credobaptist/paedobaptist debate, where both sides already embrace Scripture but have a different understanding of what the Bible teaches.

Both Calvinists and Arminians believe in predestination, but they differ on whether predestination is based on foreknowledge. Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that Jesus died for sinners, but they differ on whether Jesus tasted death only for the elect or for everyone without exception. Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that God shows grace to sinners, but they differ on whether this grace is irresistible or resistible.

And needless to say, Calvinists and Arminians may very well have different definitions for words such as “sovereignty”, and “foreknew”, just like Baptists and Presbyterians have different definitions for the word “baptize”.

(If Arminianism is true, it means that some Christians chose to believe in Calvinism instead of Arminianism out of their own libertarian free will, even though they could have chosen otherwise. If Calvinism is true, it means that God predestines some Christians (whom He has elected before the foundation of the world and whom Jesus died for) to be Arminians, and these Arminians whom God has elected before the foundation of the world could not have chosen otherwise.)


107 posted on 06/22/2012 12:11:51 AM PDT by istandwithsarah (Game on!)
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