http://janetmefferd.com/
Non-Calvinist baptists are like hamburger eating vegetarians.
No matter how much they try to claim they are both at the same time, the assertion is so ludicrous as to not be worth any time contemplating it.
The Bible is very clear on the plan of salvation. God offers us this gift, we can take it or not. If God forces it on us, then it is not a gift. Calvinism, begone!
(Flame suit donned)
Oooh, A Calvinism debate. Dibs on the popcorn concession!
The original Anabaptist movement was best exemplified by the martyr Jan Hus and did not consider themselves either reformers of the Catholic church nor followers of the 4th century Nicene Creeds, though they did not explicitly reject them either.
They considered themselves to be originalists and drove both Calvinist and Catholic leadership crazy. Some of them, of course, later united with the Calvinist faction for protection.
Others refused and went their own way. Roger Williams was perhaps the best example.
Disclaimer: (This is not a Baptist ping)
But you can be reading this while I am deciding to ping the Baptist list or just wait and see if it happens anyway.
(1) Pelagianism
(2) Semipelagianism
(3) Orthodox soteriology
(4) Calvinism.
(5) Hypercalvinism/Jansenism.
Frankly, Calvinism is idiocy, and makes God the author of sin.
The statement being debated starts:
Article One: The Gospel
We affirm that the Gospel is the good news that God has made a way of salvation through the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ for any person. This is in keeping with God’s desire for every person to be saved.
We deny that only a select few are capable of responding to the Gospel while the rest are predestined to an eternity in hell.
Genesis 3:15; Psalm 2:1-12; Ezekiel 18:23, 32; Luke 19.10; Luke 24:45-49; John 1:1-18, 3:16; Romans 1:1-6, 5:8; 8:34; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21; Galatians 4:4-7; Colossians 1:21-23; 1 Timothy 2:3-4; Hebrews 1:1-3; 4:14-16; 2 Peter 3:9
Article Two: The Sinfulness of Man
We affirm that, because of the fall of Adam, every person inherits a nature and environment inclined toward sin and that every person who is capable of moral action will sin. Each person’s sin alone brings the wrath of a holy God, broken fellowship with Him, ever-worsening selfishness and destructiveness, death, and condemnation to an eternity in hell.
We deny that Adam’s sin resulted in the incapacitation of any person’s free will or rendered any person guilty before he has personally sinned. While no sinner is remotely capable of achieving salvation through his own effort, we deny that any sinner is saved apart from a free response to the Holy Spirit’s drawing through the Gospel.
Genesis 3:15-24; 6:5; Deuteronomy 1:39; Isaiah 6:5, 7:15-16;53:6; Jeremiah 17:5,9, 31:29-30; Ezekiel 18:19-20; Romans 1:18-32; 3:9-18, 5:12, 6:23; 7:9; Matthew 7:21-23; 1 Corinthians 1:18-25; 6:9-10;15:22; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27-28; Revelation 20:11-15
Article Three: The Atonement of Christ
We affirm that the penal substitution of Christ is the only available and effective sacrifice for the sins of every person.
We deny that this atonement results in salvation without a person’s free response of repentance and faith. We deny that God imposes or withholds this atonement without respect to an act of the person’s free will. We deny that Christ died only for the sins of those who will be saved.
Psalm 22:1-31; Isaiah 53:1-12; John 12:32, 14:6; Acts 10:39-43; Acts 16:30-32; Romans 3:21-26; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 3:10-14; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:13-20; 1 Timothy 2:5-6; Hebrews 9:12-15, 24-28; 10:1-18; I John 1:7; 2:2
Article Four: The Grace of God
We affirm that grace is God’s generous decision to provide salvation for any person by taking all of the initiative in providing atonement, in freely offering the Gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit, and in uniting the believer to Christ through the Holy Spirit by faith.
We deny that grace negates the necessity of a free response of faith or that it cannot be resisted. We deny that the response of faith is in any way a meritorious work that earns salvation.
Ezra 9:8; Proverbs 3:34; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 19:16-30, 23:37; Luke 10:1-12; Acts 15:11; 20:24; Romans 3:24, 27-28; 5:6, 8, 15-21; Galatians 1:6; 2:21; 5; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 3:2-9; Colossians 2:13-17; Hebrews 4:16; 9:28; 1 John 4:19
Article Five: The Regeneration of the Sinner
We affirm that any person who responds to the Gospel with repentance and faith is born again through the power of the Holy Spirit. He is a new creation in Christ and enters, at the moment he believes, into eternal life.
We deny that any person is regenerated prior to or apart from hearing and responding to the Gospel.
Luke 15:24; John 3:3; 7:37-39; 10:10; 16:7-14; Acts 2:37-39; Romans 6:4-11; 10:14; 1 Corinthians 15:22; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 2:20; 6:15; Colossians 2:13; 1 Peter 3:18
My former pastor Bob Hadley from Daytona Beach wrote a book recently on this subject. He is in New Orleans as I type this:
All the arguing and I am noticing here between Calvinists and Methodists. Now I see why. I really think Methodists
will be very open to the “Great Warning” (non-Catholic
Christians know it as the “awakening”) Rev 6:15-17, more
than other non-Catholic Christian denominations.
Back to the subject, for the rest of Jimmy’s writing
check the link.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TULIP.htm
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James Akin
Predestination means many things to many people. ALL Christian churches believe in some form of predestination, because the Bible uses the term [1], but what predestination is and how it works are in dispute.
In Protestant circles there are two major camps when it comes to predestination: Calvinism and Arminianism [2]. Calvinism is common in Presbyterian, Reformed, and a few Baptist churches. Arminianism is common in Methodist, Pentecostal, and most Baptist churches [3].
Even though Calvinists are a minority among Protestants today, their view has had enormous influence, especially in this country. This is partly because the Puritans and the Baptists who helped found America were Calvinists, but it is also because Calvinism traditionally has been found among the more intellectual Protestants, giving it a special influence.
Calvinists claim God PREDESTINES people by choosing which individuals will accept his offer of salvation. These people are known as “the elect” [4]. They are not saved against their will. It is because God has chosen them that they will desire to come to him in the first place. Those who are not among the elect, “the reprobate,” will not desire to come to God, will not do so, and thus will not be saved [5].
Arminians claim God predestines people by pronouncing (but not deciding) who will accept salvation. He makes this pronouncement using his foreknowledge, which enables him to see what people will do in the future. He sees who will choose to accept his offer of salvation. The people who God knows will repent are those he regards as his “elect” or “chosen” people.
The debate between Calvinists and Arminians is often fierce. These groups frequently accuse each other of teaching a false gospel, at least on a theoretical level, although on a practical level there is little difference between the two since both groups command people to have “FAITH ALONE” in order to be saved [6].
The debate is centered on the well-known formula TULIP. Each letter of this acronym stands for a different doctrine held by classical Calvinists [7] but rejected by Arminians. The doctrines are: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and Perseverance of the saints. ...
Hi, no reply, this is fine.
I looked for a simple explanation for why Calvinism is heresy. Read the question and answer, the answer sounds like God’s way of doing things.
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Question
Hello,
I have a question about predestination. I think I believe in it, I believe that some people from the very beginning are chosen, by God, to be either good or bad, go to hell, purgatory or straight to heaven. Think about Hitler in Germany or about Stalin in the Soviet Union. People commit sins and that’s why wars break out and will always break out because people will never stop committing sins. I think, as a punishment, God chose Hitler as his tool to punish people, isn’t it predestination. Now think about Father Pio (bore the wounds of christ on his person for fifty years), at a very early age father Pio had visions of his Guardian Angel, Holy Mary and Jesus, because God has chosen him, as a tool of salvation for many other people whom he managed to help during his life, isn’t it predestination, I think it is. What are your thoughts about it? Thank You!
Answer:
Dear Luke:
The definition of predestination that you are describing comes from the heresy of John Calvin. If we think about it a minute, how can a loving Heavenly Father predestine someone to hell? What father would do that?
John Calvin had this notion that some are predestined to hell, others to heaven, and there is nothing the person could do about it. Obviously, there is no free will in this economy. Some go to hell whether they like it or not, and others go to heaven whether they like it or not.
To resolve that problem, Calvin came up with the notion of “irresistible grace”. This means that those on the list to go to heaven WILL accept God’s grace even if they don’t want to. God’s grace is “irresistible” and therefore cannot be refused.
These notions are NONSENSE, unbiblical, and offensive to a God who is love.
St. Peter, our first Pope teaches us: “The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. (2 PET 3:9)
So what is predestination?
+ + Predestination is not a willing of God to assign someone to heaven or hell, rather it is a FOREKNOWLEDGE where God KNOWS from all eternity which people will CHOOSE Him and which will not. He has predestined heaven for those who accept Him and hell for those who reject. BUT MAN IS FREE to choose good or evil. + +
How this foreknowledge and man’s free will are compatible is a mystery. We can speculate and grab on to some notions of how this is possible, but in the end it is a mystery hidden in God.
An imperfect analogy might be an old married couple, married for 50 years. They know each other so well that they can “know” what the other will do in advance of them doing it. This foreknowledge does not force the husband, for example, to do what he does, he does it out of free choice; it is just that the wife “knows” he will do it.
Such foreknowledge does not interfere with free will, it just knows what choice the husband will make.
Although this analogy is very imperfect, it does give us a clue to how foreknowledge does not interfere with free will.
As for God choosing people for certain things, yes, He does that with all of us, but He DOES NOT force anyone to live out that calling. Even the Blessed Mother, who was called to be the Mother of God, was not forced. She could have refused God’s plan. We see in the book of Luke that Mary made a free will choice to accept God’s plan. This is called Mary’s Fiat. The same choice must be made to accept God’s plan for us whether the person is Padre Pio, or you and me.
As for Hitler and Stalin being instruments of God’s punishment, we need to be very careful about such notions.
God does not perpetrate material evil upon people. He offers them love and justice, but does not perpetrate material or actual evil.
The evil that harms us is created by ourselves — mankind — and by the devil. Hitler was a product of his upbringing, his decisions, and maybe a mental disease, and maybe demon possession. He decided to do what he did, and Stalin too. The evil perpetrated upon the world by them was accomplished through their free will choice to do what they did.
I do not believe God “willed” the horror of Hitler or Stalin, or “willed” the AIDS epidemic or the like in any way. Hitler, Stalin, AIDS, hunger, war, etc. are all products of human sin. Thus we punish ourselves, God doesn’t have to zap us, we zap ourselves.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Catholics-955/religion-3.htm