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To: Petrosius
>>Jesus said to [Simon Peter] in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matt 16:17-19)<<

How about we look at what Peter had said just previous to that verse.

Matthew 16: 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus was referring back to Peter’s attestation the Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. Now let’s look at who that Rock is.

Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."

1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"

1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."

1 Pet. 2:8, speaking of Jesus says that he is "A stone of stumbling and a rock (petra) of offense"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed."

1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

As God has stated. He is the Rock and He knows of not other.

>> I would like to keep the discussion limited to the topic of this thread: Church infallibility.<<

All right. Then how about we look at who has Christ “in them”.

» John 17:23: Christ Himself prays to His Father: "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one."

» Romans 8:10: Paul tells us, "If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin."

» Galatians 2:20: Paul speaks of himself and all true Christians: "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me."

» Ephesians 3:17-18: Referring to the "inner man," Paul mentions that he prays "that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith."

» I John 3:24: John writes: "Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He has given us."

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.

Yet the RCC would have you believe that only the “magesterium” has the ability to be led by the Spirit of God.

68 posted on 06/14/2012 7:34:20 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Jesus was referring back to Peter’s attestation the Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. Now let’s look at who that Rock is.

This is only your interpretation of Scripture, one that I find laughable. Speaking in Aramaic Jesus would have said "You are Kepha (rock), and on this kepha (rock) …" The supposed dichotomy between Petros and petra is supported neither by the context nor by philology.

But again, let us not get sidetracked by a discussion of which is the correct interpretation. You have one interpretation and I have another. Both claim to be based on Scripture. Without an divinely established authority to which we can appeal we are left with nothing but private opinion. Nor will it do to appeal to the Bible; that is where we started and is the source of our disagreement.

If we look at the history of the Church we will find that it always claimed the authority do rule on disputes of theology. Indeed it was this authority which ruled on what is the true canon of Scripture in the first place.

71 posted on 06/14/2012 7:58:51 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: CynicalBear

Jimmy Swaggart made me Catholic.

http://shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=170

“Tim Staples was your typical enthusiastic Protestant, on fire for his faith—until he met the “wrong” Marine: a Catholic man who was both willing and able to defend his faith.

How did Tim Staples, an extremely anti-Catholic man, get started on the path to Rome?
What happened to cause the little boy who wanted to be a preacher just like Billy Graham to grow up and become a well-known Catholic apologetics speaker instead?
How did the man Tim set out to “save” end up saving him?

How can a Protestant Bible school be the place where the gift of Catholic faith is forged? Let Tim tell you his story . . .

How could a man who was bound and determined to prove the Catholic Church wrong ever be persuaded otherwise?
Why was Tim defending the Catholic Church during his time at Jimmy Swaggart Bible College? Find out how this school expedited the process of Tim becoming Catholic!
Why did Tim feel so alone on the cusp of becoming a Catholic? The heart-breaking decision Tim had to make while on the verge of conversion

Listen to Tim Staples as he tells you the incredible story of his conversion—it’s a story you won’t soon forget.


82 posted on 06/14/2012 10:11:14 AM PDT by NKP_Vet (creep.)
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