Posted on 06/13/2012 1:12:26 PM PDT by wmfights
It has been said that one can use church history to prove just about anything. There is some wisdom to that old adage and that is why we must be careful when we use church history to support what we believe. Also, evangelicals have often rightly declared that as important as church history is, our doctrinal beliefs must first and foremost be grounded in Scripture. Thus, the proper perspective is to pay close attention to church history and learn from it, but also understand that Scripture takes priority over church history when it comes to what we should believe.
With that in mind, however, I do think church history is helpful when it comes to the controversial issue of the nature of the millennium that is discussed in Rev 20:1–10. On six occasions in this passage the Apostle John speaks of a reign of Christ that is a “thousand years.” Throughout church history, Christians have sparred over what John meant by a thousand-year reign of Christ. Premillennialists say this reign takes place on earth after the second coming of Christ but before the eternal state. In this case, the millennium is future from our current standpoint in history. Amillennialists, on the other hand, say the millennium is a spiritual reign of Christ that takes place in this current age between the two comings of Jesus. Thus, the millennium is not a future reign of Jesus but a current reign.1
So how can church history help us on this controversial issue of the millennium? It can benefit us as we look at the millennial beliefs of those who had some connection with the Apostle John, the one who penned Rev 20:1–10. It can also help as we look at the beliefs of those in close geographical proximity to Asia Minor where the Apostle John lived later in his life. Our argument is this—we think it probable that those who had a close association with John would also have a correct understanding of what John meant by the millennium.
First, let’s look at two individuals who had some connection historically with John—Papias and Irenaeus. Papias (A.D. 60–130) was Bishop of Hierapolis in Phrygia, Asia Minor. He was a contemporary of Polycarp.2 According to Martin Erdman, Papias “represented a chiliastic tradition which had its antecedents in Palestine.”3 Papias’s dependence on the oral teachings of the apostles and elders has been documented by both Irenaeus and Eusebius.4 Eusebius points out that Papias received “doctrines of the faith” that came from the “friends” of the twelve apostles.5 Eusebius also said of Papias, “It is worth while observing here that the name John is twice enumerated by him. The first one he mentions in connection with Peter and James and Matthew and the rest of the apostles, clearly meaning the evangelist.”6 Papias,
1 Postmillennialists agree with amillennialists that the millennium takes place between the two comings of Christ, but argue that this reign of Christ must mean that the world will get progressively better until it has been Christianized. 2 Polycarp (A.D. 70–155) was Bishop of Smyrna and most importantly for our purposes, was a disciple of John the Apostle. Because of his connection to the apostle John, Polycarp was viewed as a protector of true doctrine. According to Irenaeus, Polycarp was converted to Christianity by the apostles. He was made a bishop and had communicated with many who testified that they had seen Jesus. 3 Martin Erdman, The Millennial Controversy in the Early Church (Eugene, OR: Wipf and Stock, 2005), 107. For our purposes here we are following the lead of Erdman in viewing chiliasm and premillennialism as mostly synonymous. 4 Ibid. 5 Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, III. 39.2. 6 Ibid., 39.5. 2
thus, saw himself as possessing the teachings of the apostles. As Eusebius notes, “And Papias, of whom we are now speaking, confesses that he received the words of the apostles from those that followed them.”7 Irenaeus also refers to Papias as “a hearer of John.”8
It appears that Papias had close connections with the apostles and John the Apostle in particular. So did he hold a particular millennial view? He did—Papias was a premillennialist. Eusebius records that Papias believed things that “came to him from unwritten tradition” and “teachings of the Saviour.” Among these beliefs were “that there will be a millennium after the resurrection of the dead, when the kingdom of Christ will be set up in material form on this earth.”9 Thus, with Papias we have a case of a Christian who had close access to John the Apostle and was convinced that the kingdom of Christ was future and earthly.
Next, Irenaeus (c. 130–c. 202) was born in Asia Minor and later became the bishop of Lyon. As a youth Irenaeus had listened to Polycarp who probably had personal contact with John and other apostles.10 Irenaeus was not as directly associated with John as Papias, but the historical connection through Polycarp is still significant. Irenaeus knew someone who knew the Apostle John. As with Papias, Irenaeus was also a strong believer in premillennialism. In fact, premillennialism was a major a weapon in Irenaeus’s battle against Gnosticism and its unbiblical dualism between matter and spirit.11 Irenaeus used premillennialism and the idea of an earthly kingdom to fight the gnostic view that matter was evil that and God was not interested in redeeming the earth. Erdman points out that “The book Adversus Haereses is also one of the most important sources of millennial expositions in the ante-Nicene literature.”12
So with the cases of Papias and Irenaeus we have two people who had a historical connection with John the Apostle who affirmed premillennialism. Is it possible that these two men were simply wrong about the millennium? Did they misunderstand John? Of course it is possible, but is it likely? We think not.13 It is more likely that they held to premillennialism because John himself taught this view.
Another historical factor we must keep in mind is that those in geographical proximity to John also believed in premillennialism. John lived his later years in Ephesus in Asia Minor. Erdman refers to the premillennialism of Asia Minor in the second century as “Asiatic millennialism.”14 He also notes that “the decisive authority of Asiatic millennialism is John, from whom the elders claimed to have obtained their information. Moreover, John, as again stated by Papias, ascribed the origin of millenarianism to Christ.”15 Thus, the evidence indicates that Christians of Asia Minor held to premillennialism. Other associated with Asiatic millennialism include Tertullian, Commodian, and Lactantius. In fact, the pervasiveness of premillennialism in the early church in general was so great that Philip Schaff once declared:
7 Ibid., 39.7. 8 Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V. 33.4. 9 Ecclesiastical History, 39.11–12. 10 Erdman, 108. 11 For a detailed discussion of how Irenaeus used premillennialism as a weapon against Gnosticism see Erdman, 107–29. 12 Ibid., 109. 13 Eusebius himself believed Papias was mistaken. 14 Ibid., 107–134. 15 Erdman, 111. 3
The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgment. It was indeed not the doctrine of the church embodied in any creed or form of devotion, but a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius.16
If premillennialism was the intended view of John the Apostle it seems natural to think that those who knew him or had a close association with him would also affirm premillennialism. And, if John the Apostle lived in Asia Minor it appears likely that those Christians near his area of influence also would have similar views as John on the millennium. We cannot be absolutely certain of these estimations, but they do appear probable. On the other hand, for amillennialism or postmillennialism to be correct, we have to believe that those who had close connections with John, either personally or geographically, were woefully wrong with their views of the millennium. In our view, this is possible but not probable.
In closing, we understand that the case for a particular millennial view does not rest solely on what certain Christians in the early church believed. Scripture, not church history determines the correctness of a theological view. But it seems to us that the historical argument is on the side of premillennialism since people close to John held premillennial views and premillennialism was the overwhelming view of those in Asia Minor and the church as a whole of the second century.17
16 Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (Grand Rapids. Eerdmans, 1973), 2:614. 17 We are not saying that every single Christian of the second century was a premillennialist, but premillennialism was clearly the dominant view
The first sentence in the OP says be careful about Church
history. LOL, yeah, you got a group saying the first
Christians, naming some of them, that they believed in Millenarianism.
For the third time, how come the author and others here
won’t look at what these same men believed on other things
of faith. I’ll name one, the summit, Our Lord’s presence in the most Holy Eucharist?
The Church DOES NOT teach Our Lord is returning personally
to reign during the Millennium or whatever the amount of time the 7th Day amounts to...
Here, from the Catechism:
paragraph 676 - The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.578
Come to believe in the Eucharist now, Our Lord wishes and if not now, after everyone experiences the Great Warning and you won’t be deceived by the anti-Christ when he attempts to take the Eucharist away. Believe the Great Warning is from God, only God knows every moment of our life.
“Using the Christian calendar, Christ is due any time now (6,000 years have elapsed since Adam’s first day on earth time.) Under the Jewish calendar, about a quarter century remains on the first 6,000 years. The difference is a dispute over how much time Israel spent in exile to Babylon.”
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Hi Alamo-Girl,
Not to argue, no one has shown where it states Our Lord
is returning PHYSICALLY before the the Final Judgment. It’s not in Tradition or Scripture.
The 7th Day maybe 1000 years, God’s choosing but we don’t
know for sure yet. The Church Fathers say a 1000 years may not be literal.
Get the first right, then worry about the time frame.
Our brothers and sisters in Christ and non-Christians do
not believe yet but many will after the 2nd Pentecost, God’s
Great Warning. You all hear it in prophecy as “the awakening.”
Look at all this Scripture. God speaks in prophecy describing the new time, the 7th Day. He wants you to
believe. The benefit of prophecy. Prophecy makes God’s
plan explicit. I’ll say it a hundred times, God wants us
all to believe the same, Our Lord’s prayer to the Father.
God Speaks Will You Listen
October 23, 2007
Now my people, read the consequences of my children of Israel’s disobedience to my commands and their vows to Almighty God. Deuteronomy 1: 29-32,33-36,38a. And I said to you: Fear not, neither be ye afraid of them: The Lord God, who is your leader, himself will fight for you, as he did in Egypt in the sight of all. And in the wilderness (as thou hast seen), the Lord thy God hath carried thee, as a man is wont to carry his little son, all the way that you have come, until you came to this place. And yet, for all this
you DID NOT believe the Lord your God. And when the Lord had heard the voice of your words, he was angry and swore, and said: Not one of the men of this wicked generation shall see the good land, which I promised with an oath to your fathers: Except Caleb the son of Jephone: for he shall see it, and to him I will give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath followed the Lord. But Josue the son of Nun, thy minister, he shall go in for thee. In case, my people, you do not think these words apply to you today, please read: I Corinthians 10:11. Now all these things happened to them in figure: and they are written for our correction, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Now read Hebrews 3:15-19.
While it is said, Today if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in that provocation. For some who heard did provoke: but not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. And with whom was he offended forty years? Was it not with them that sinned, whose carcasses were overthrown in the desert? And to whom did he swear, that they should not enter into his rest: but to them that were incredulous? And we see that they could not enter in, because of unbelief. Let us therefore hasten to enter into that rest: lest any man fall into the same example of unbelief. Hebrews 3:11. My people, notice whom these words are written to. It is not the ungodly and sinner, but my House of Israel or my church. My people, DO NOT LET THE SIN OF UNBELIEF keep you from entering my rest. I created the world in six days. On the seventh day, I rested from the work of creation as Genesis 2:1-3 states. My people, this era of yours is soon coming to an end. The sixth day of creation is finished. The seventh day will be called the era of peace.
This is a mystery which has been hidden from mankind for many years. My prophets have described these times to my people. Isaiah 30:26: And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days: in the day when the Lord shall bind up the wounds of his people, and
shall heal the stroke of their wound. Now read Isaiah 65: 17-25. This is a description of my era of peace. To repeat myself, the seventh day of creation is the fulfillment of the era of peace. Now read Apocalypse 20:1-7. These verses also describe the era of peace. The casting of the man of sin and his followers into the pool of fire, marks the end of the 6th day of creation. At that time, I will renew my creation and the seventh day will begin. This day has been described as lasting 1000 years.
Remember what my word states: II Peter 3:8: But of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The entire era of peace is described as a time period of the seventh day or a thousand years. Only I the Lord God knows the length of the era of peace. During this era of peace, my son Jesus will reign through my Catholic church. This can be called the Eucharistic reign of my son. Do not be confused with the millennial heresy. My son is NOT going to REIGN in the FLESH in the
temporal City of Jerusalem. This is a heretical teaching. My son is going to reign in his Eucharistic glory in the New Jerusalem, which is my church. My son will only return in the flesh at the end of the era of peace or human history, to judge mankind at the last judgment.
Time will not exist during my era of peace, as you understand it. Apocalypse 20:5-6 states: The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power. But they shall be priests of God and of Christ: and shall reign with him a thousand years. This first resurrection occurs in the era of peace. My saints will be resurrected and receive glorified bodies and walk among my people, teaching and instructing the Catholic faith. This has been described as the temporal kingdom by the Church Fathers. This will be the Promised Land my children of Israel will inherit. My Will will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Listen to the following
words carefully. Only those who trust totally in God Almighty will inherit the Promised Land.
Remember ONLY 2 MEN, Josue and Caleb, entered the Promised Land in the Old Testament. To enter the era of peace, you must abandon yourself totally to my will. You must live the consecrations made to my daughter Mary and my son Jesus. You must follow the teachings of my Catholic Church, and pick up your cross daily following my son Jesus Christ. If you do not follow these words, you cannot enter my era of peace. The sin of unbelief prevented my children from entering the Promised Land in the Old Testament, and it will once again prevent my children from entering the era of peace. Let go of your attachment to earthly desires and attractions. You must be willing to be persecuted and totally dependent on your Lord and Savior.
The old testament says Christ will rule on earth. Jesus is fulfilling God’s promises. Why would this be a problem to a believer?
He comes as the Lamb, then He comes as the Lion. Do not deny the Lion. Off to bedtime.
“The old testament says Christ will rule on earth. Jesus is fulfilling God’s promises. Why would this be a problem to a believer?”
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Hello anathe,
No one disagrees, Jesus Christ is King of Heaven and Earth, He rules the Universe, He is Second Person of the Blessed
Trinity, God. That doesn’t mean He is going to reign in
His physical person here on earth during the new time.
Kinda like Judaism, people believed Our Lord would be
a temporal king, they didn’t get He can reign spiritually.
I highlighted the message with caps.
...”Remember what My word states: II Peter 3:8: But of this one thing be not ignorant, My beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The entire era of peace is described as a time period of the seventh day or a thousand years. Only I the Lord God knows the length of the era of peace. During this era of peace, My son Jesus will reign through my Catholic church. This can be called the Eucharistic reign of My son. Do not be confused with the millennial heresy. My son is NOT going to REIGN in the FLESH in the
temporal City of Jerusalem. This is a heretical teaching. My son is going to reign in his Eucharistic glory in the New Jerusalem, which is My church. My son will ONLY return in the flesh at the end of the era of peace or human history, to judge mankind at the LAST JUDGMENT.”...
Remember, the verses about a “last trump” blown and the
dead shall rise?
“And yet the amillenialists would seek to discredit Premillenial Evangelical Christians as a “recent fad”. “
No, we see DISPENSATIONAL premillenialism as a “recent fad”. Historic premillenialism was not dispensational, and was frequently post-trib. The historical pre-mills did not try to separate Israel and the Church.
stpio:
“Yes, they’re wrong. Jesus is coming spiritually for the millennium. There will be many signs and wonders but He isn’t returning to the earth physically to reign.”
...After all, “He will divide the booty with the strong” Isaiah 53. And Job said (Job 19):
23 “Oh, that my words were recorded,
that they were written on a scroll,
24 that they were inscribed with an iron tool on lead,
or engraved in rock forever!
25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and THAT IN THE END he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
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You proved what is prophesied and written in Scripture.
Verse 25 is about the Final Judgment, this is when Our
Lord is returning in His person.
Job 19:25...the footnote is in between verse 25 and 26
For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and in the last day I shall rise out of the earth.
[25] I know that my Redeemer liveth: Ver. 25, 26, and 27 shew Job’s explicit belief in his Redeemer, and also of the resurrection of the flesh, not as one tree riseth in place of another, but that the selfsame flesh shall rise at the last day, by the power of God, changed in quality but not in substance, every one to receive sentence according to his works in this life.
[26] And I shall be clothed again with my skin, and in my flesh I will see my God. [27] Whom I myself shall see, and my eyes shall behold, and not another: this my hope is laid up in my bosom.
blessings,
This is where we get it in Scripture...
Revelation 16:16 The Beast gathers his armies together at Armageddon, an actual physical place.
Revelation 19:11-21 The King of Kings comes down from heaven and makes war against the Beast and his armies gathered at Armageddon (a physical, geographical place.)
Revelation 20:1-6 Christ sets up His millenial reign on the earth. (a real physical place)
Revelation 20:8-9 Details actual geographic nations (Gog and Magog) compassing the the breadth of the earth (a physical place) and making war on the "beloved city" (Jerusalem).
I'm not going to convince you, and don't want to argue, and I don't really care about your "Traditions," but it is a physical place and it is in Scripture.
We read in Revelation 20:4-6 that we will be His priests and live and reign with Him for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. – Revelation 20:4-6
And it came to pass, that, while they communed [together] and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. - Luke 24:15-16
Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. - John 20:19-20
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took [it], and did eat before them. - Luke 24:40-43
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. – I Corinthians 15:42-45
Messianic Judaism is YHvH's remnant As to the Reign of Yah'shua Specifically Zachariah 14. Where YHvH will rule the nations from Jerusalem I believe your tale is in error.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
as spoken of in the WORD.
on the throne of David in Jerusalem
You need to prayerfully request the
Ru'ach HaKodesh to illuminate
the WORD for you.
“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” - John 4:21-24
John 4:21-24
See: Gen. 45:7; Num. 21:35; 24:19; Deut. 3:11; Jos. 12:4; 13:12; 2 Sam. 14:7; 21:2; 1 Ki. 22:46; 2 Ki. 19:4, 30; 21:14; 1 Chr. 4:43; 2 Chr. 34:9; Ezr. 9:8, 13; Neh. 1:3; Ps. 76:10; Isa. 10:20ff; 11:11, 16; 15:9; 16:14; 17:3; 28:5; 37:4, 31; 46:3; Jer. 6:9; 8:3; 11:23; 23:3; 24:8; 25:20; 31:7; 40:11, 15; 41:10, 16; 42:2, 15, 19; 43:5; 44:7, 12, 14, 28; 47:4f; 50:20; Ezek. 5:10; 6:8; 9:8; 11:13; 25:16; Amos 1:8; 5:15; 9:12; Mic. 2:12; 4:7; 5:7f; 7:18; Zeph. 1:4; 2:7, 9; 3:13; Hag. 1:12, 14; 2:2; Zech. 8:6, 11; 9:7; Mal. 2:15; Rom. 9:27; 11:5 Remnant :
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
The remnant is the woman, the Bride of Christ and her seed are those who have remained faithful to His Church, the Catholic Church.
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. - Romans 11:5
The remnant is the woman, the Bride of Christ and her seed are those who have remained faithful to His Church, the Catholic Church.
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. - Romans 11:5
I think you are searching for Revelation 12:17 !
What you quoted is NOT Romans 11:5 !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Rev 12:17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman,
The woman is Israel in Revelation 12, if Exegesis in context is used.
and went off to make war with the rest of her children,
who keep the commandments of God and hold to the
testimony of Jesus.
“We read in Revelation 20:4-6 that we will be His priests and live and reign with Him for a thousand years.”
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Hi AG,
One thing, we have no disagreement, Our Lord’s glorified body and one day the faithful too will have glorified bodies. God’s plan. In a prophecy from the 16th century, at the Resurrection, Our Lord’s glorified body is described. It’s amazing to read, I should paste it.
I replied in the thread to say absolutely NO to Jesus reigning during the 7th Day physically, ruling on the earth in His person during the new time, the Millennium as some call it. He will NOT rule on this earth in His person. It’s going to be a SPIRITUAL reign. There will be many miracles and signs of God during this new time, oh my, the earth will be transformed! This new time, Catholics know it as the Era of Peace. Yes, the verse “reign with Him”...but how?
Look at the verse below,
Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth and hearthe the words of this prophecy and keepth those things which are written in it, for the time is at hand.
John’s Revelation is mysterious, a help in understanding this prophecy is found in prophecy, in current prophecy. Read what God states about the 7th Day in a prophetic message from 2007. He speaks of the new time of God, the millennium, the 7th Day.
He tells you to read of it in Isaiah 65:17-25 and in Revelation 1:1-7. Revelation 1:1-7...is a lead up, it is more about the end of the 6th Day. Soon, very soon in the “awakening”, the Great Warning, part of the end of the 6th Day, prophecy of the saints and current private revelation tell us, when the Great Warning happens, we will see, all the world will see a Cross in the sky. Revelation 1:7.
p.s. the footnote to Revelation 1:3, shows, sometimes Scripture verses speak of two periods of time, of things passed that have happened and yet refer to events come. A double reference.
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excerpt from the 2007 message:
God Speaks Will You Listen
....”My people, this era of yours is soon coming to an end. The sixth day of creation is finished. The seventh day will be called the era of peace.
This is a mystery which has been hidden from mankind for many years. My prophets have described these times to my people. Isaiah 30:26: And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days: in the day when the Lord shall bind up the wounds of his people, and
shall heal the stroke of their wound. Now read Isaiah 65: 17-25. This is a description of my era of peace. To repeat myself, the seventh day of creation is the fulfillment of the era of peace. Now read Apocalypse 20:1-7. These verses also describe the era of peace. The casting of the man of sin and his followers into the pool of fire, marks the end of the 6th day of creation. At that time, I will renew my creation and the seventh day will begin. This day has been described as lasting 1000 years.”....
~ ~ ~
Isaiah 65:17-25
For behold I create new heavens, and a new earth: and the former things shall not be in remembrance, and they shall not come upon the heart. [18] But you shall be glad and rejoice for ever in these things, which I create: for behold I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and the people thereof joy. [19] And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people, and the voice of weeping shall no more be heard in her, nor the voice of crying. [20] There shall no more be an infant of days there, nor an old man that shall not fill up his days: for the child shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed.
[21] And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruits of them. [22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of my people, and the works of their hands shall be of long continuance. [23] My elect shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth in trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their posterity with them. [24] And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will hear; as they are yet speaking, I will hear. [25] The wolf and the lamb shall feed together; the lion and the ox shall eat straw; and dust shall be the serpent’s food: they shall not hurt nor kill in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.
Revelation 1:1-7
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass: and signified, sending by his angel to his servant John, [2] Who hath given testimony to the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, what things soever he hath seen. [3] Blessed is he, that readeth and heareth the words of this prophecy; and keepeth those things which are written in it; for the time is at hand. [4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne, [5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[1] Things which must shortly come to pass: and again it is said, ver. 3, The time is at hand— This cannot be meant of all the things prophesied in the Apocalypse, where mention is made also of the day of judgment, and of the glory of heaven at the end of the world. That some things were to come to pass shortly, is evident, by what is said to the Seven Churches, chap. 2 and 3, Or that the persecutions foretold should begin shortly. Or that these words signified, that all time is short, and that from the coming of Christ, we are now in the last age or last hour. See 1 John 2. 18.
[6] And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father, to him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen. [7] Behold, he cometh with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also that pierced him.
“Using Old Testaments words to preach Protestantism is a part of Messianic Judaism. This sect and believe it or not there are breakaways, was started by a Baptist minister a very short time ago. He wanted to convert those who believe in Judaism to Protestantism.”
I believe your tale is in error.
Messianic Judaism is YHvH’s remnant
as spoken of in the WORD.
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I disagree and not to be mean. Yes, it is known, the
origin of Messianic Judaism and their splits. You can’t
make history up.
If you believe a lie, you can.
It’s like stating Scripture came complete. Not true. Someone of authority had to decide which writings were divinely inspired and those writings had to be translated. It happened. Pope Damasaus and St. Jerome. The Bible is a Catholic book.
blessings to you,
Read this part of the message from Heaven again.
Protestants, non-Christians do not understand it now but they will be enlightened by God Rev - 6:16-17- and will convert to the faith, the RC. Humanity as we are, some will still say no. Pray for them, for their conversion.
The Remnant is Roman Catholic as Natural Law is posting
about too. Hi NL.
10/23/07
God Speaks Will You Listen
Remember what my word states: II Peter 3:8: But of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The entire era of peace is described as a time period of the seventh day or a thousand years. Only I the Lord God knows the length of the era of peace. During this era of peace, my son Jesus will reign through my Catholic church. This can be called the Eucharistic reign of my son. Do not be confused with the millennial heresy. My son is NOT going to REIGN in the FLESH in the
temporal City of Jerusalem. This is a heretical teaching. My son is going to reign in his Eucharistic glory in the New Jerusalem, which is my church. My son will ONLY return in the flesh at the end of the era of peace or human history, to judge mankind at the LAST JUDGMENT.
Time will not exist during my era of peace, as you understand it. Apocalypse 20:5-6 states: The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power. But they shall be priests of God and of Christ: and shall reign with him a thousand years. This first resurrection occurs in the era of peace. My saints will be resurrected and receive glorified bodies and walk among my people, teaching and instructing the Catholic faith. This has been described as the temporal kingdom by the Church Fathers. This will be the Promised Land my children of Israel will inherit. My Will will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Listen to the following
words carefully. Only those who trust totally in God Almighty will inherit the Promised Land.
Remember ONLY 2 MEN, Josue and Caleb, entered the Promised Land in the Old Testament. To enter the era of peace, you must abandon yourself totally to my will. You must live the consecrations made to my daughter Mary and my son Jesus. You must follow the teachings of my Catholic Church, and pick up your cross daily following my son Jesus Christ. If you do not follow these words, you cannot enter my era of peace. The sin of unbelief prevented my children from entering the Promised Land in the Old Testament, and it will once again prevent my children from entering the era of peace. Let go of your attachment to earthly desires and attractions. You must be willing to be persecuted and totally dependent on your Lord and Savior.
ping
Well i guess that settles that, but we can still argue about a thousand things.
I believe that it is both spiritual and actual and i believe it has already happened.
5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
They reigned as literal kings and of Priests which history can well vouch for, its all been wrote down.
The thousand years are most likely finished and satan has been let loose for a spell, now it is our turn, we were not in the first resurrection but we now have a chance to acknowledge Jesus as our lord by refusing the mark of the beast.
Remember that a day is as a thousand years, in other words the last day that Jesus mentioned could be as much as an other thousands years, but if that last day started 999 years ago that does not give us much time. just generalizing.
I don,t expect any one to congratulate me for my non wisdom nor even to half way agree, but it is just what i believe.
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