Posted on 06/07/2012 8:38:38 AM PDT by Gamecock
it would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. your post contains many false asserions, let’s review:
1. the Apostles kept the Sabbath. before Pentecost yes, after the coming of the Holy Spirit, NO.
please provide any evidence that the Apostles kept the Sabbath after Pentecost or any NT verse instructing Christians to keep the 7th day sabbath. ( i’ll save you the trouble, there aren’t any )
2. they did not worship on SUN day worshipping Mithra. I AGREE! they worshipped on the first day of the week, the day known as Sunday. i don’t know of anyone who worships “mithra”, can you provide proof of someone who does?
3. they did not celebrate Mithra’s birthday on 12/25. I AGREE! do you know someone who celebrates “mithra’s birthday on 12/25? i know many Christians who celebrate Jesus’s birthday on 12/25.
4. they did not worship “ishtar” queen of heaven. I AGREE! do yo know anyone who worships ishtar?
5. please provide proof that i worship the golden calf.
the problem is Jesus foretold false teachings in Matthew 24.
if you don’t think Jesus takes persecuting the Church seriously ( and these false charges certainly are persecution ), then you have never read Acts 9:4-5.
woops, i forgot your Lev.23 feasts comment.
these feasts all pointed to Jesus Christ and were fulfilled by Him.
for example, the feast of first fruits was fulfilled when Jesus rose from the day on the first day of the week, on the feast of first fruits. Jesus is our first fruits. there is no reason to keep this type and shadow, Jesus is Risen!!
Christians celebrate this first fruits resurrection every first day of the week. ( i realize you have a problem with SUN day , so i’ll use first day of the week )
To those of you who may be interested; here is Dr. Kim Riddlebarger’s lecture, titled “The Church As The Israel of God”.
This is a mp3 file that contains 10 meg of content. Dr. Riddlebarger speaks for about an hour, then takes questions and answers them for approximately 15 minutes.
This mp3 file is from my Dropbox account. To download this file to your hard drive, simply click the link, then click SAVE..then choose where to place the file on your hard drive, then click SAVE again.
For those of you who simply wish to listen to the lecture, click the link, then click OPEN.. the mp3 will then begin to play through your browser. =
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16063967/16.%20The%20Church%20as%20the%20Israel%20of%20God.mp3
I think you’ll find Dr. Riddlebarger’s presentation to be quite scholarly as he deals with the arguments presented by the Dispensationalists, then examines Scripture to REFUTE the Dispensationalist claim that “Israel is Israel, and the Church is the Church, and never the twain shall meet”, which is a well known phrase that I heard often while attending Bible College.
This mp3 file is from my Dropbox account. To download this file to your hard drive, simply click the link, then click SAVE..then choose where to place the file on your hard drive, then click SAVE again.
No need. The whole series is freely available from Dr. Riddlebarger's blog.
(Those interested in this would also profit from the author's forum from Rev. Riddlebarger's church, especially G. K. Beale's discussion of his book The Temple and the Church's Mission, which is the author's summary of a dense (but very good. recommended!) 500 page book.)
Will they listen?
Lee, I thought that a few people might be more inclined to listen to one of the lectures, rather than take the time to download or listen to a lengthy series on the subject at hand. Whether they will actually listen, well, that’s not up to us, is it?
1. Acts 15:21
2. Jewish Believers gathered at the end of the Sabbath, our Saturday night their Sunday. They had a Havdalah ceremony where they say good bye to the Sabbath. They gather in homes to share a meal, teaching and worship. The next day, Sunday they go to work.
3-4. Key similaritiesMithras was born from a virgin on December 25, a date later co-opted by Christians as Christ’s birthday in 320 AD. A traveling teacher and master, Mithras also performed miracles. He had twelve companions as Jesus had twelve disciples. Mithras died for man’s sins and was resurrected on the following Sunday. The crucifix, water baptism and the breaking of bread and wine are also shared by both religions.[1] Weikepedia
5. The Golden Calf worship was a mixture of Hebrew and Pagan worship. When Jesus said he would give only one sign he was the Messiah, that as Jonah was in the belly of the whale 3 days and 3 nights so would he be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights. When you celebrate Good Friday as the crucifixion and Sunday(2 days/ 2 nights) as the ressurection you are mixing Pagan religions with Hebrew faith, which is Golden Calf worship. This is just ONE of many deceptions of traditional christianity.
oh my, a lot of failure here. let’s review:
1. Acts 15:21 does not teach we are to keep the seventh day sabbath, it doesn’t say the Apostles kept it either. it merely says Moses was read the synagogues on the Sabbath. Christians met on “the Lord’s Day” the first day of the week, since Jesus rose from the dead on this day.
2. the NT does not say anywhere Christians had a havdalah ceremony, this is a figment of sameone’s imagination. please provide chapter and verse to support this.
3. “key similarities”? you are kidding right? are you saying Jesus didn’t perform miracles? He didn’t have 12 Apostles? He didn’t die for the sins of the world? He wasn’t raised from the dead on the first day of the week? He didn’t institute Baptism or the Eucharist? the fact that some pagan religion opposed by the Church copied some Church doctrines doesn’t make those doctrines false.
4. golden calf worship? again, you must be kidding.
Jesus Himself tells us in Luke 14:32 how to Biblically count days “ Behold i cast out demons and perform cures TODAY and TOMORROW and the THIRD DAY i finish my course”
now let’s apply this method to when Jesus died and when He rose from the dead. Jesus died on Friday ( that would be “TODAY” according to Luke 14:32. The Sabbath or Saturday would be the second day or TOMORROW of Luke 14:32 and the first day of the week or Sunday would be the THIRD DAY of Luke 14:32. There you have it, Biblical proof that Jesus rose on the THIRD DAY, Sunday. ( just as the Church has taught for 2,000 years )
Jesus warned about false prophets arising right before the end and they would lead many astray. it looks like you have been taught by one or more of these false prophets.
I am completely intrigued by your Biblical perspective. Have you gone to Seminary? May I ask what church you recieved your teachings from?
my father did, until he realized that he would not be able to be celibate.
i learned the Faith from great nuns and priests who were not infected by moderism. ( plus my mom and dad were strong Christians )
Once one realizes that the Church is the Body of Chrsit on earth and not a man made organization like the moose club, then you know you are hitting on wisdom.
true Faith is a gift from God, so all praise and honor belong to Him.
No, the logical fallacy is yours because the ground of our belief is not something that is merely in the realm of logic or thought. There is no circular assumption of authority because our belief is grounded, not just by claims of authority, but by things that happened in space/time history. Events of the past are not just a logical or mental construct of some kind. Your assumption that our beliefs are grounded merely in circular claims of authority is false.
Cordially,
Quite the contrary. Chrstianity acknowledges the Revelation at Sinai, which also occurred historically. Chrstianity then claims to be the "fulfillment" of that Revelation, despite the fact that that Revelation requires no further "fulfillment" whatsoever. All chrstians can do is point to messianic prophecies and claim J*sus fulfilled them based on his own, chrstianity's, and the "new testament's" claims that he did so.
The fact that the claims of chrstianity are based on historical events itself means nothing. Many religions are based on historical events. Mormonism claims that "gxd" appeared to Joseph Smith. Catholics claim that a great multitude (including atheists) witnessed the "miracle of the sun" on October 13, 1917. Does that make mormonism or Catholicism true? Of course not.
The Revelation at Sinai, unlike every other claim of revelation in history, was a national revelation in which some three million people experienced the Revelation of G-d Himself. Chrstianity acknowledges this. On what basis, then, does it claim to "fulfill" this Revelation? On the basis of its own claims, which are assumed to be "self-evidently true" and "self-evidently authoritative." They are neither.
Better sit down. You're going to get dizzy.
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