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To: boatbums; metmom
No amount of educational, theological and experiential knowledge is sufficient so long as the author has left "THE" Church and unashamedly states why it was the right decision.

As we frequently find out, usually well after the fact, there are ulterior motives to leaving the Church, rarely theological, if ever. Your own testimonies are very illustrative.

THE" Church and unashamedly states why it was the right decision. But we are regaled frequently by threads with claims of "former" Protestants who "cross the Tiber" and become Roman Catholics and their credentials are considered sterling based simply upon the fact that they "came home".

Making the decision to return to God, following the example of the Prodigal Son, or the Roman centurion, is to be celebrated. Not sneered at.

There certainly does seem to be a double standard and it exposes, as I said earlier, the real insecurity some have over what they believe because they are not all that sure WHY they believe it.

We are called to believe in Him.

John 6: 26 Jesus answered them, and said: Amen, amen I say to you, you seek me, not because you have seen miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto life everlasting, which the Son of man will give you. For him hath God, the Father, sealed. 28 They said therefore unto him: What shall we do, that we may work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered, and said to them: This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore to him: What sign therefore dost thou shew, that we may see, and may believe thee? What dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert, as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life to the world. 34 They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread.

35 And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, that you also have seen me, and you believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out. 38 Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day. 40 And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day. <> 41 The Jews therefore murmured at him, because he had said: I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he, I came down from heaven? 43 Jesus therefore answered, and said to them: Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father; but he who is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 54 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.

59 These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.

60 Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it? 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you? 62 If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him. 65 And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father.

66 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? 68 And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we have believed and have known, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God. 70 Jesus answered them: Have not I chosen you twelve; and one of you is a devil? 71 Now he meant Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon: for this same was about to betray him, whereas he was one of the twelve.

At some point, "because that's what we believe", doesn't cut it anymore and that is when the Holy Spirit can start to work. We are living proof that He does!

Matthew 7: 16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Those who depart from God will find God departs from them.

523 posted on 06/10/2012 11:22:35 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
As we frequently find out, usually well after the fact, there are ulterior motives to leaving the Church, rarely theological, if ever. Your own testimonies are very illustrative.

Since you are impugning my own testimony, please clarify what I have said that gives you that right.

Making the decision to return to God, following the example of the Prodigal Son, or the Roman centurion, is to be celebrated. Not sneered at.

I do not disagree at all that it is ALWAYS a cause for rejoicing when anyone either comes to saving faith in Christ or leaves a wanton lifestyle to return to living in holiness after an initial decision to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. I DO disagree that it is only the Roman Catholic Church that can be that place of homecoming. For many people such as myself, it was when I read God's word and recognized the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Christ that God lead me OUT of that religion and into a church where the truth of the Gospel was celebrated and where Christian living was encouraged out of gratitude for God's grace and not as a means to gain His grace. Thank you again for giving me a chance to retell my testimony.

574 posted on 06/11/2012 1:17:14 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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