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To: daniel1212; Natural Law
Perhaps it is a condemning attitude that was referred to

What condemning attitude?

And while you see Catholics who hold that extra Ecclesiam nulla salus leaves non-Catholics damned as being bitter, failed Catholics who know little about what the Church actually believes or teaches

No, that's not what I see. What I see is that ex-Catholics who are persistent in talking about the Church, without bothering to be truthful about its doctrine or teachings, whether intentionally or not, are bitter, failed Catholics who know little about what the Church actually believes or teaches.

more historical position of Rome, which does condemn “schismatics” to Hell,

No, it doesn't.

as seen here

It appears you put a lot of effort into cutting and pasting out of context snippets from various documents. I didn't have time to thoroughly investigate the lengthy cut and paste, but I did skim it. I didn't see the Church condemning anyone to hell.

463 posted on 06/10/2012 8:06:09 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: Titanites; daniel1212
"I didn't see the Church condemning anyone to hell."

The Church has never claimed the ability to condemn anyone to hell nor has it ever stated that its declaration of excommunication or anathema have any impact on ones salvation. Both excommunication and anathema deal only with a person's relationship with the Church, not God.

The Church, like all churches, has declared that that certain practices and beliefs will result in damnation, but doesn't claim the ability to enforce it.

“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.” - Harry S. Truman

464 posted on 06/10/2012 8:15:24 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Titanites; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name
What condemning attitude? I

didn't have time to thoroughly investigate the lengthy cut and paste, but I did skim it. I didn't see the Church condemning anyone to hell.

It is quite evident there, but skimming or less seems to be the most some RCs can tolerate lately.

Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): “There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church. (On the Unity of the Catholic Church) http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9singul.htm

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her;...No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. - Pope Benedict XIV (1740-1758 A.D.).

"The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that..schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life..unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." — Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style), proclaimed “ex cathedra” (infallible).

Well, despite attempts to deny it, this is what was taught by many, and your denial and argument on this is not simply with me but with many Traditional RCs and sedevacantists, if you cannot presently see the condemnation and the condemning attitude then more proof now will not suffice.

The problem is that while the liberal view may hold that baptized Protestants are joined to the Lord in His Mystical Body and thus are a part/member of the Catholic, as it is the Mystical Body of Christ, yet there is room for interpretation as to the "no fault of their own" and "knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it" (846,47) conditions mean.

Some see these as excluding all who have heard the claims of Rome to be the OTC but reject them, leaving only ignorant type souls to be possibly saved, while another sees the exclusion as only applying to those who acknowledge the claims of Rome as being true but reject them anyway, while even Muslims can be saved.

489 posted on 06/10/2012 11:57:51 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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