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To: boatbums

*****There is NO escaping the truth that Jesus taught the TRUE meaning behind the Old Testament Scriptures, not only what they said about the Laws of God, but what they said about God, himself as well as what they said about Jesus as the Son of God.*****

I never disputed that. But you ignore the very real fact that Jesus was a radical departure from what the Jewish people expected and said and did things that were shocking to them, which were to them contradictory to Scripture. He healed on the Sabbath, He forgave sins, He allowed His disciples to gather grains to eat on the Sabbath. He did not conform Himself to what they thought He was or should be and He did not confine Himself to the letter of the law.

****If Jesus did NOT fulfill those prophetic passages about the Messiah, then he would NOT have been accepted by the Jews that DID accept Him****

Exactly, without authority, which He claimed according to Scripture, what He taught would have been soundly rejected by all Jews for what He taught, what He said and what He did was not what they wanted or at least expected.

That He used Scripture to reveal His authority is my point.

****He most certainly DID teach the importance of the Scriptures as the authority by which he presented himself to the nation of Israel as represented by the religious leaders of his day.****

Yes He did, but He did not use only Scripture nor did He ever claim that His message was to be measured ONLY by Scripture. Scripture certainly was used to affirm His authority, but He brought a new message. Again, many of the things He said and taught were thought to be contradictory of what the Messiah would do and say.

****Yes. We do. But the religious leaders were certainly NOT demanding adherence to sola scriptura (nice try) because they had already perverted what Scripture said with their Mishnahs and Tanakhs and TRADITIONS and Jesus had to readdress what Scripture really did say especially about Him. And like I said, he taught them the SPIRIT of the law and not just the letter of law. As God incarnate, He had that right to teach them the heart of all God had revealed to them.****

Really? The “leaders” tried to use Scripture to trip Him up, to get Him to say things they could condemn Him for and He always turned it around on them. He explained the deeper truths to be found in Scripture, truth that they did not see because they were too bound to their own understanding and could not accept His. He went under the surface of what Scripture says, which they were unable to do because they were too hard hearted in their own understanding.

Sorry I meant to include this but didn’t.

John 16:12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Did this promise of Jesus’ have an expiration date?

****It IS kinda funny, though, that you are reacting this way at the slightest hint that there MIGHT be some free will in there. Hmmm...could God have predestined this to happen????****

LOL, I believe fully in free will and my reaction was not to that but to your “what if”. Why, because you have been quite adamant about how Jesus HAD to fulfill the prophesies and the Scripture about Him, then you throw out this silly notion that He was waiting to see what the Jewish people would do. And some did exercise their free will to accept Him and some did so to reject Him.

No, God did not predestine this, but He knew what would happen. Just as He knows what will happen all the way to the end of the world. All the choices I make, you make, everyone makes. He doesn’t predestine them, He just knows them.

****I think everything that He wanted to be taught and kept forever IS in there for all of us even two thousand years later.****

I do as well. It is all there for those who have eyes to see it, minds to know it and hearts to accept it.

8


411 posted on 06/09/2012 9:00:04 AM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette; boatbums
I never disputed that. But you ignore the very real fact that Jesus was a radical departure from what the Jewish people expected and said and did things that were shocking to them, which were to them contradictory to Scripture. He healed on the Sabbath, He forgave sins, He allowed His disciples to gather grains to eat on the Sabbath. He did not conform Himself to what they thought He was or should be and He did not confine Himself to the letter of the law.

No doubt He was because they had lost sight of what the Law was all about.

It's irrelevant whether they thought He was violating the Law. He wasn't. Their interpretation was wrong and they had set up traditions of men which He violated and that offended them, but there's no way He would have violated Scripture.

He had to have confined Himself to the letter of the Law. In His own words....Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Yes He did, but He did not use only Scripture nor did He ever claim that His message was to be measured ONLY by Scripture. Scripture certainly was used to affirm His authority, but He brought a new message. Again, many of the things He said and taught were thought to be contradictory of what the Messiah would do and say.

What else would He have used besides Scripture? There was no other God given authority to appeal to to validate His claims. Scripture points to Jesus, it prophecies about Him. Ho showed where and He also showed the intent of the Law.

Sure the Jews didn't expect Him to do what He did. That's because they relied too much on tradition they had added to Scripture.

We see the same thing today. Too many religionists rely on tradition and get tripped up when only Scripture is presented. They react the same way as the Pharisees.

412 posted on 06/09/2012 9:51:37 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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