OK, this is a discussion of ISM - I got that. I don’t believe in it, don’t defend it, never have.
However, there is apparently some feeling that this discussion of the ISM, is in truth, an argument against Romney.
Let me ask this plainly - is there concern from the antiMormonISM crowd here that if Romney is elected president that his belief in MormonISM will have some terrible effect on our country (worse than that of a second Obama presidency)? If so, what is that fear, what is the damage that you perceive Romney will visit upon the US? If not, is there some other connection between these discussions and Romney? What is that connection, if it exists?
Now a couple of questions related to your mention of “your” candidate:
Do you believe Virgil Goode is a viable candidate, in the sense that there is a possiblity that he could win?
If not, do you understand the very real fear many of us have of a second Obama term, that far exceeds our very real concerns (doubts) about Romney?
Do you understand how a vote for Goode (or not voting at all) helps Obama get closer to another term?
If you understand and acknowledge these fears, then you will understand the passion with which your choice of candidate is met - not from “Mittbots” as you so charmingly phrased it in a previous encounter, but from those of us who desperately want Obama defeated. This in not a choice of the lesser of two evils, we see it as a choice between evil, and not as good as we would like.
Do you contend that? Do you believe Romney is as evil a choice as Obama, or worse? If so, why? Is it related to his belief in the LDS teachings??
If you do not understand mormonism, you will not understand that Romney will act very much like Obama...there will only be a change of masters. The policies will be much the same, with the beneficiaries of largesse changing from the present ones to the ones chosen by Romney under the influence of the leaders and power brokers of the mormon church. There is NO morality in either man.
Romney is despicable because of his pro-abortion stance, which is approved by the mormon church. He is unfit for governance because of his lack of discernment in following Joseph Smith.
If you are the least bit interested in my fears of Romney as a mormon POTUS, you can spend some time in following my posting history and reading the articles I have posted regarding the arcane beliefs and take some time to read through this site: Especially the "Law of Consecration"
Be aware that Romney does not just give lip service to this "law", nor to Second Anointing....this ceremony promises that the couple will be guaranteed exaltation (salvation) for eternity for having been a "faithful servant" to the mormon church.
Given your comment to me earlier, "gf - are you an unmitigated fool?" this will be my last comment to you.
A question for you (& others) who wax utilitarianism -- until it's not very convenient to continue doing so, that is.
What do I mean?
Well, as you know, our POTUS election is unlike other elections -- in that we have a state-by-state electoral vote to consider.
What does that practically mean?
It means that if you live on the Left Coast (Washington, Oregon, and CA have the three highest unchurched rates, respectively) -- it won't matter that you cast a vote for loser Romney. So tell us, oh pragmatic one, Do you believe Mitt Romney is a viable candidate in Washington state? In Oregon state? In California? In Washington DC? In Maryland? In NY? In NJ? A viable candidate in those states "in the sense that there is a possiblity that he could win?"
If so, upon what basis do you make such claims?
My opinion is -- NO, Mitt Romney is NOT a viable candidate in those 6 states, DC & other likely states as we move closer to November.
According to YOUR line of thinking then...why should ANYONE who lives in those states/district bother to vote for Romney?
If you cannot address this, then stop the nonsensical inconsistency if you WiLL not apply it to Romney in given states.
Romney would be a "puppet" in the hands of a Mormon "prophet" reigning from Salt Lake City. The REAL power wouldn't be in the White House, but rather SLC!
Past statements from Mormon leaders show their lust for political power...(That's enough for me re: a concern)
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) | |
| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?) | |
| B.H. Roberts | LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! | “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180 | |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] |