Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
“not “vain repetitions”, i.e., “Hail Marys”, and adhering to extreme legalism.
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Hi,
There are verses in Scripture, God asks for “repetitious”
prayer, He is pleased with it.
You misinterpret, the term means pray so people can see you, just to look holy, which amounts to insincere prayer.
Matt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, “do not heap up empty phrases” in prayer. Protestants use this verse to criticize various Catholic forms of prayer which repeat phrases, such as litanies and the Rosary. But Jesus’ focus in this instruction is on the “vain,” and not on the “repetition.”
Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It’s the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.
Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.
Acts 10:2,4 - Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.
Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.
Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.
1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.
Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.
Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase “For His steadfast love endures forever” is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God’s divine Word.
Dan. 3:35-66 - the phrase “Bless the Lord” is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.
The arguing will go on forever until God personally sets
everyone straight. That’s why no one will speak or reply
to the prophecy about Revelation 6:12-17. I must of
posted it three times.”
“If I thought it had bearing on the question at hand I would have but I really don’t see any reason to post it without further explanation.”
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I was making a comment about the thread, 600 replies, no one changes, so why even go on in any discussion?
It will take God Himself. Break away, what say you? Why are some of the very words in Rev 6:16-17 explained in the prophecy excerpt I posted, the message from God Speaks Will You Listen? The explanation is pretty simple.
God is going to bring Christianity together and He tells you how in prophecy and it’s written in Scripture.
“True believers are already unified in the Spirit. Denominationalism (aka churchianity) is NOT Christianity. A one world religion is well, a one world religion, and it’s headed by Satan and the FALSE prophet, not God.”
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I’ve been away, there are many comments to reply to, a lot, so I can’t but know I love you all.
I’ll say something because I believe prophecy is a help.
“Denomination” is a Protestant word, never existed in
Catholicism. Protestants are not “unified”, only in one
thing, the rejection of the true faith. The hallmark of
Protestantism is the inconsistency of belief.
Do you think the RCC is or will be the one world religion?
You are already deceived then. Satan is attacking the RCC
at the present and he’s stepping it up. He knows who the
true faith is...
Our Lord is not returning to make sure the RCC is destroyed
and to proclaim you are saved by the “grace” of the altar call, believe what you wish.
As I've said before,I started reading the Bible as an atheist,starting at the end and working backwards (which was typical,as an atheist I had most things bass ackwards).I found it mortifying to say the least!
My sleep departed from me and the joints of my loins were loosed so that my knees smote the one against the other,so to speak.
I knew nothing of God,the Holy Spirit or the church.Jesus was to me a religious nut who dreamed He was the Son of a supposed God and His name was good for cursing with.
Those Words I read in 'The Revelation of Jesus Christ' haunted me,scared me and just plain nagged and gnawed at me.I could not,for whatever reason,just let them slide away into a fading memory.
For myself,in my beginning with God, at the start of my new life, the Bible spoke for itself.It still does.
We are given at seat at the Kings table,totally on someone elses account and I saw my place as sitting down,shutting my big fat trap and listening to what the King and His court might discuss!
Mighty things,things that I knew not!
The fact that in our hands we hold the very words,the message from the Creator,the cosmic observer,to those created in His image,should make us tremble at the thought that we actually have an extraterrestrial artifact in our possesion.
I can't grasp that so much of christianity seems to try to lessen it somehow,make it subservient to some other supposed authority.That it somehow 'lacks'.
The Words on those pages turned my world upside down.That was 25 years ago.They still do.Maybe to some that might look like I worship the Bible.I do not,any more than I might admire a person through reading their autobiography.The Bible points to it's author and in our great spiritual battle it is the only offensive weapon we have.In that regard our Maker deems it sufficient for He gave us no other.
God bless.
Why go on here? Some of us enjoy the give and take when it's without rancor and we are commanded to be ready to make a defence of our faith when necessary. As to whether anyone changes...well that we don't know but we're still obligated to sow the seeds widely.
Just what is it I'm to “break away” from?
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
Anything that contradicts or does not line up with Scripture is not truth, ie it's a lie. Satan's favorite tactic is to get men to disbelieve the WORD. That's how he got Eve to sin, by causing her to question what God had revealed to Adam. *Did God REALLY say....?* has, sadly, been one of his most effective tools down through the ages. We can know that the source of anything that disagrees with Scripture is Satan.
John 8:31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
The Bible is, at it's heart, a series of contracts (covenants) between YHWH and Man. Do you REALLY want to claim that any edifice of man has authority over that? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is on it's face?
Most religious people and likely many Christians, have a total misunderstanding of the Law and it's purpose. The Holy Spirit through Paul tells us here....
Galatians 3:24-25 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
It DOES explain how one might suppose to change it at a whim, but you will never convince me of any authority whatsoever to do so.
AMEN!!!!
Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?
And just how do you KNOW that that *interpretation* of Rev 6:12-17 is the correct one?
And just how do you KNOW that that *interpretation* of Rev 6:12-17 is the correct one?
Go ahead and present your case.
If you think that by posting it repeatedly it gives it credibility or veracity, you are mistaken. Error, no matter how many times it's repeated is still error. It does not become truth with repetition.
The only thing that we can be sure of being true is Scripture itself. Everything else needs to be taken with all due caution. *Prophecies* like that can pretty much be tossed on only a cursory inspection.
“Then, you explain to the person, CYC...why.”
Oh, it has been....often and in detail, which is why I attempt to be civil to all and respectful of none.
“I was trying to say count your change, “you are stuck in
your belief, I am hoping you will change” That’s a sincere
comment.
Then I suggest that is what should be said!
Thanks to Rel. Mod.
There's so much wrong with that it's hard to know where to begin.
Religion does NOT save anyone. True believers know that.
Protestantism is merely a label slapped on those who did not reject the *true faith* but those who recognized the authority and veracity of Scripture and rejected the corruption and immorality and other excesses within Catholicism.
One thing Catholics seems to be pretty good at is failing to recognize and address the fact that Luther did not want or intend to start a new church or denomination. He wanted to get rid of the immorality and corruption which he saw in the Catholic church and get back to the Scripture that the Catholic church CLAIMS IT wrote.
How ironic that the RCC ends up ex-communicating him for wanting to fix the problems within the church.
FWIW, the word *church* is not found in the NT in the Greek either. The word is *assembly*, so the argument against the use of the word *denomination* is invalid.
Prophecy isn't really of any help at all because we have Scripture.
If what the prophecy says contradicts Scripture, we can know its source, that it is of Satan the father of lies, and can be rejected on that basis alone.
If the *prophecy* agrees with Scripture, then it is really not prophecy, it is merely teaching what Scripture already addresses and therefore is redundant and unnecessary. At that point the motives of the person calling themselves a prophet should be called into question.
Also, considering what Scripture teaches about false prophets, one has to wonder what the big attraction is to some people to call themselves prophets.
So tell me.....WHY should we believe those so-called *prophecies* you've been repeatedly posting?
Jesus did away with religion when He died on the cross and NOBODY is saying that anyone is saved by an altar call or that that is how one receives grace.
God LAVISHES His grace on us freely, not in sting little packets based on works we do to earn them.
Ephesians 1:3-14 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
WOW!
Preach it, brother!
Pretty thin gruel that when the rest of the Scriptures are so enlightening. Hopefully stpio can enlarge upon that.
It might have been better said by stpio... *It seems to me that “you are stuck in your belief, I am hoping you will change” *.
That would not be mind reading but an observation expressing stpio's own opinion about how he perceives the situation.
That's how to not make it personal.
Amen metmom.
However,it seems that folks will end up trusting the most what they hear the most.
Faith (trust)cometh by hearing afterall.It seems to follow that what is heard the most is trusted the most.By that I don't necessarily mean intellectually assent to but rather that deeper trust in,or faith in (whatever)that effects the way we view things and the way we think.I think that none of us are totally immune to this but as believers we can at least now "bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ".As free people who have been given all that we need (the Holy Spirit)we will not let our heart,which we do not fully know, rule our thoughts simply because something we have heard over and over again sank down into us without ever being trully vetted.
We examine all things and hold on to the true.
God bless.
Not unrelated at all. You said “rightly divided” and I pointed to a gross error on the part of the RCC in “rightly dividing the word of truth”. I am quite familiar with 2 Tim 2:15 and would simply ask you to show me from scripture where we are taught the bodily assumption of Mary or that she is now the “queen of heaven”.
That was a new one for me also but it fits in with the thinking of the RCs.
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.
Clearly the reason for Spiritual guidance for those seeking truth was to protect us from the Pharisee type “rules” which the RCC promotes just as Paul was talking about in Acts.
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
I can assure you that I will not be hiding under a rock but will be looking up with anticipation and joy at the coming of our Lord and will “meet Him in the air” and that will happen long before the happenings of Revelation 6.
Just using Revelation 6 in reference to true Christians alive today shows ignorance of prophecy.
You must not have this one in your Bible, then:
Jhn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.Sounds pretty emphatic to me...Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Jhn 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Jhn 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
AMEN! mitch. That’s a great observation.
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