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To: Iscool; Quix
I'm surprised nobody has called you on this.

That the mother provides salvation and grace and that all prayers must go thru the mother

(1) Nothing in the Catechism says that "all prayers must go through Mary". Where are you getting this from? It's not Catholic dogma. Read through the prayers of the Mass (sadly not available on the net for copyright reasons) sometime ... Mary is barely mentioned. The consecration of the Eucharist ends with the priest elevating the sacrament above the altar and singing, "Through Him, with Him, and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor are yours, Almighty Father, forever and ever". Sounds like a Trinitarian prayer to me.

(2) If Mary "provides salvation and grace," she does so through her Son.

And then criticize another religion that doesn't believe that there are 4 members of the household of God in heaven, but just one.

There are millions or billions of "members of the household of God" in heaven, not one. That's what heaven is. But perhaps you don't actually believe in the Scriptural understanding of heaven.

Yep, that's rich.

What's "rich" is that you two take the side of an anti-Christian cult, which teaches that you two are part of the whore of Babylon, that Jesus is the incarnation of the archangel Michael, and that only 144,000 members of the generation alive in 1914 get to go to heaven ... over and against the Catholic Church, which unhesitatingly preaches the Triune God of the Scriptures and hopes to see both of you in heaven.

That's rich.

27 posted on 04/29/2012 5:45:38 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion
I'd rather not get into this again. However, the issue is SOOOO Biblically and spiritually crucial, I must state again:

As the Ferraro devotional documents, MANY RC leaders and organizational 'stars' have attested to such a blasphemous outrage as truth--with the organization's ALMOST total blessing.

Certainly without the RCC or its Magisterical censoring such assertions.

But WITH a LOT of repeated pontificating and glorifying of such assertions . . . for decades and often centuries for such ilk.

The appeal to the Catechism as the definer of RCC truth is wholesale farcical.

1. The Catechism is a mess and covers all sides of a long list of issues--providing so much wiggle room for believing at least a couple sides of many big issues as to be grossly and embarrassingly absurd. It boggles my mind that thinking bright folks would appeal to that tome as a justification for any purportedly solid, rational belief.

2. REGARDLESS of what the Catechism says, THE PONTIFICATIONS AND PRACTICES from the Pope and the Vatican itself down to the local parish are flagrantly, routinely and relentlessly of the ilk that Mary is part of the God-head and at least Jr manager of all things spiritual and Salvific. What blasphemy.

Oh, I know about the proffered test cases of this or that group of Nuns that got censored or even excommunicated for some brazen Maryolitry. Stack that up against many 100's of THOUSANDS of examples on the opposite side of the ledger and it's laughable.

In short, the chronic practices of a huge chunk of the organization's faithful AND THEIR LEADERS mirror the worst of the classical pontifications in Ferraro's book.

And, as with everyone, Y'ALL'S ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN YOUR WORDS, TOO.

The nonsense about Ferraro's book being hyperbole doesn't wash either. WORDS MATTER. The UNMODIFIED original 10 COMMANDMENTS MATTER.

Exodus 20:1-17

And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

1.You shall have no other gods before me.

2.You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3.You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5.Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

6.You shall not murder.

7.You shall not commit adultery.

8.You shall not steal.

9.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10.You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

.

God didn't leave wiggle room in HIS #1 & 2. The RCC's Magisterical revisionist version NEVER received Heaven's approval in the least. .
.
.

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

28 posted on 04/29/2012 6:24:10 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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