Posted on 04/19/2012 7:31:52 PM PDT by Colofornian
Yup...
From the article: many deadly errors flow from this denial of THE foundational doctrine of the Christian faith. According to Mormon beliefs Jesus is not God, he is a pre-existent spirit, and spirit brother of the devil. Mormons hold that God (The Father) is the creator of all spirits including Jesus and Lucifer. Mormons believe that the blood of Christ alone cannot cleanse some sins.
From an Lds "apostle" article...found here: < a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2462068/posts?q=1&;page=151">ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN):
Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church...
That's why I asked in a few posts from that thread: Did you all catch the above??? Per Mormonism -- this means that if you join the "wrong" church, your "reprieve of" your "own sins" isn't going to come from your pardon-Governing god. (More "conditions").
This Mormon "apostle" claims: they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they...receive...confirmation into Christ's church... (meaning the Mormon church!)
So the church then -- in this case the Mormon church -- becomes the "substitutionary replacement" as the sin-bearer of your personal sins vs. Jesus Christ. What blasphemy!
What is it about Lds general authorities that they think they can toss around Christ's blood as to who it will reprieve and who it won't? I mean that's what the whole Lds false historical doctrine of blood atonement was all about! Why don't grassroots Mormons ever hold their leaders accountable for obvious past (& present) false doctrines? (Even things they patently know are false!)
Yet another example of this was Marion G. Romney, Mitt's father's cousin. Marion Romney, one of the top three hierarchical leaders in the Mormon church in the 60s (member of the First Presidency...counselor to a few Mormon "prophets"), likewise usurped Jesus' own words in John 14:6 when he said:
"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119)]
Utter idolatry! Jesus Christ alone qualifies as "I am the Way, the truth, and the life. NO man comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)
The Lds church, thru its teachings by the likes of...
Marion Romney,
Brigham Young (blood atonement)
and Lds "apostle" Holland,
has and is engaging in open idolatry in erecting substitutes in favor of the blood of Christ as the Living Way.
[Caveat: Even when Mormons occasionally mention the blood of Christ, it's usually how he sweat (not the cross)...and, as evidenced above, they make it out Christ's blood to be anemic.]
I call upon this false apostle (Holland) to repent, and for Mormon grassroots to find the backbone to realize God holds us accountable for replacing Christ and His blood with a church structure. The same "woe" Jesus gives in Luke 11 is appropriate to leaders of the Mormon church: "Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering." (Luke 11:52)
This is a serious warning Christ gave. Heed it as such.
Hence, we see Web headlines like: Mormonism's Real Secret Doctrine
Or, when you have the bizarre temple oaths sworn -- as depicted by Packham and also found here: Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church]
Of course, when you have these kind of bizarre beliefs as posted in the previous post, mum's the word.
Secret, secret, secret
Fulness of the gospel NOT in the Book of Mormon. Secret to prospects - they'd look in vain for the primary Mormon teachings to be taught there.
Original "old plates" Joseph supposedly found. Secreted away.
The founder, Joseph not telling wife Emma about women he had affairs with (Fanny & others) 1831 & beyond. Secret.
Mormons not putting the polygamy doctrine in writing until the 1850s. Secret.
Bloody victims' clothes & orphans from Mountain Meadows Massacre, 1857. Secret for two years.
Mountain Meadows Massacre culprits. Conspired amongst each other to never tell. Secret.
Mormonism openly false 19th century teachings like Adam-is-god and blood atonement. Unacknowledged as former teachings. They wish these were a secret.
Mormon polygamists hiding out from the feds in 1880s. Secret hideaways.
Lds Plural marriages 1890-1910. Secret.
Still today:
Lds temple ceremonies. Secret.
Lds weddings in temples. Secret.
Secret underwear power. Very secret.
Mormons believe thousands of deceased Mormons practicing polygamy in another realm. "Open" Secret.
History not "faith promoting" to Lds church and former leaders. Tendency to tuck away. Secreted away.
fLDS families -- the "living daguerreotype" of what 19th century Mainstream Mormon families were often like -- tucked away in out-of-the-way communities. Treated like the crazy aunt to lock away in the basement closet.
No wonder a BYU history prof wrote a book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." "Magic" is a sub-category of the occult. And what does the word "occult" mean? (Yup, Latin for "hidden" -- as in secret).
Note how BYU even conceded the occultic worldview Mormon foundational premise of Quinn's book here: BYU Review of Early Mormonism and the Magic World View
Here's an "FAQ" I developed relative to the Mormon "jesus":
Q1 Isn't the first distinct focus on the Mormon "Jesus" was that he was some unembodied vague "intelligence" even before the Mormon claim that Jesus, like Superman, had parents from another planet?
A Yes. Lds "scriptures" Doctrine & Covenants 93:29,33 assign ALL of us eternal status as past-tense intelligences. (So we're ALL supposedly as "eternal" as Jesus is)
Q2 Well about what about once the Mormon "Jesus" got to the spirit baby stage? Comparing so-called "spirit babies" born to a mom goddess in heaven, what difference was there between the "Jesus spirit baby" and the supposed rest of us "spirit babies" born to such a mom goddess?
A Mere spiritual birth order--The Mormon Jesus supposedly having been birth first in some "pre-existent world"
Q3 What about the Earthly Origins of the Mormon Christ?
A * Place of birth: Jerusalem (vs. Bible pinpointing it as Bethlehem).
* The Mormon Jesus was twice made a son of God via Mary 'cause Lds say Heavenly Father was the literal paternal father of the conceived Jesus;
* The Mormon Jesus only became God's "only begotten Son" upon conception within Mary. Not so: Jesus, as the Son of God from eternity (John 17:5) -- having shared God's glory before the world was -- is God's one and only Son (John 3:18)...the rest of us are mere "adopted" sons -- if we are indeed His.
Q4 Is the Mormon "Jesus" an exalted spirit baby-become-god?
A As noted above, the lds jesus is not the Son of God from eternity past. That "jesus" worked his way up to godhood status. He's not an exalted God-become-man, but an exalted man-become-God. He was an elder spirit bro of Lucifer. Had you or your brother been "first" in that pre-existent spirit world birth order, he could have been Christ!!!
This "jesus" is foreign to the Bible. The Messiah of the Bible shared the glory with the Father in the beginning (John 17:5). This Jesus is THE Son of God, not just a son of God. And THE Son of God did not consider equality with His Father something he couldn't let go of while becoming a man (see Philippians 2). Phil. 2 makes it clear He was already divine, not just a "wannabe" God like Dear Ole Dad.
Q5 Is the True Jesus Christ a 'Saved Being'?
A In contrast to the Mormon christ -- who is but a "saved being"--a mere creature like dear ole Dad, the true Jesus Christ is eternal!
The 'Mormon' Jesus: "Christ is a saved being” (lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)
“Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being...” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234)
Please also see...
* McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation”)
* McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72
I'm sorry, but the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).
Q6 Is the Mormon christ just one savior among many?
Yes. Admittedly this is currently publicly downplayed -- but to Lds directly -- baptism of/for the dead has been played up by Lds "prophets" from Joseph Smith to Joseph Fielding Smith to others as THE most important individual responsibility there is -- wrapping that responsibility up in their own works-driven salvation:
Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith: “But greater than all this, so far as our individual responsibilities are concerned, the greatest is to become SAVIORS, in our lesser degree which is assigned us, for the dead who have died without a knowledge of the Gospel. Joseph Smith said, ‘The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us, is to seek after our dead’…It will suffice here to say that the Lord has placed upon us this responsibility of seeing that our dead receive the blessings of the Gospel. Said Joseph Smith: ‘Those saints who neglect it, in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.’” (The Way to Perfection, pp. 153-154)
Lds "prophet" John Taylor: ...we are the only people that know how to SAVE our progenitors, how to SAVE OURSELVES, and how to SAVE our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).
Joseph Fielding Smith again: "... mortals have to BE SAVIORS on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (The Way to Perfection, p. 325)
Taylor again: "We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to BE SAVIORS FOR THEM by being baptized for them in the flesh,, that they may live according to God in the Spirit." (March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)
No, "saviors of the world" are NOT plentiful per the Bible (see 1 John 4:14; John 4:42).
Q7 How were our sins atoned for? By sweating blood in the Garden of Gethsemane?
A Lds leaders have constantly de-emphasized the cross of Christ by pointing to the garden, where Jesus sweat blood, as the place of atonement.
Q8 Did the Mormon "jesus" really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature?
A No, if you take merely the Mormon Articles of Faith -- Article #2.
Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland though claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to only to members of the Mormon church:
From this Holland article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church...
Source: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland: ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN)
The Mormon 2nd article of faith emphasizes the Mormon doctrine of men being subject to punishment for their own sins; this Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their OWN sins, and not for Adam's transgression."]
The Mormon second article of faith, therefore, is a half-truth and a false gospel. Men who do not place their faith in the true Jesus Christ will indeed die in their sins; beyond that, Jesus' blood covers the sin of others. The flip side of the Mormon 2nd article of faith is that the Mormon jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."
Also, the Mormon leaders accuse Jesus of having rather anemic blood:
"Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf. This is scriptural doctrine, and is taught in all the standard works of the Church." (Joseph Fielding Smith, "Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1 , p. 135)
"Man may commit certain grievous sins--according to his light and knowledge--that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be save he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone-- so far as in his power lies -- for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 93).
So much for the power of Christ's blood to cover sins per Mormonism.
Q9 Was the Mormon Jesus a creature before He was a 'Creator'?
A Yes. The Bible assigns Jesus as being the Creator of All Things & All Beings -- whereas the Mormon "Jesus" is Simply a spirit Creature offspring of Kolobian parents.
Compare that to the Jesus of the Bible Who created ALL things--including all angels...including even Lucifer (see Heb 1; John 1; Col. 1:16; see even D&C 93:9-10).
Q10 Why do Mormons downplay the uniqueness of Jesus?
A Because of their unique doctrine that
(a) we were all eternal;
(b) we were all spirit babies just like Jesus;
(c) their teaching that Jesus was a "saved being" -- in need of "salvation";
(d) all Mormons become "saviors" via baptizing dead people;
(e) all temple Mormons become gods.
(f) and SOME Lds leaders' teachings that Jesus is not deserving of worship.
The Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among perhaps millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!)
Q11 Do Mormons worship Jesus?
A It depends upon which Mormon and which Mormon leaders you talk to. Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie advised Lds STRONGLY in 1982 to not worship Jesus.
McConkie must have seized upon the Mormon "scripture" of D&C 20:17-19 as the key verse that would “guide” his pattern of worship once & for all: and that he should be the ONLY BEING whom they should worship ... as he quoted it to BYU students. (See Our relationship with the Lord)
Christians worship this Messiah, just like God told the angels to do in Hebrews 1:6. And I challenge grassroots Mormons to defy their leaders -- like Lds "apostle" McConkie when they tell them NOT to directly worship Jesus (see Mormon 7:7; 2 Nephi 25:29; 4 Nephi 4:37; 3 Nephi 11:17; 3 Nephi 17:10).
I DIRECTLY pray to this Jesus as Stephen did in Acts (7:59) -- and even as the supposed Book of Mormon disciple characters DIRECTLY and repeatedly did to Jesus in 3 Nephi 19: 6-26...again -- a Mormon "scripture" de-emphasized & ignored by Mormon leaders).
Q12 If Mormons do worship Jesus -- and if they deem Jesus a "separate" god than Heavenly Father, doesn't that mean they worship more than one god?
A Yes.
To show you the extent of confusion this has caused even among Mormon leaders, look at "apostle" McConkie's book, Mormon Doctrine:
"Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)
Q13 Wait a minute. Didn't you just get done telling us that McConkie advised BYU students NOT to worship Jesus in 1982?
A Indeed, he did, after saying the above in 1966! But McConkie was so confused, he would say "3" then "2" in the same book...and then eventually settled on "1" by 1982!
McConkie, on p. 848 of Mormon Doctrine, emphasized worshiping two gods: "The Father and the Son are the objects of all true worship....No one can worship the Father without also worshiping the Son....It is proper to worship the Father, in the name of the Son, and also to worship the Son" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 848).
Q14 Doesn't the Book of Mormon contradict even the two-god worship theory of McConkie's?
A Yes. Mormon 7:7 reads: 7And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the bworld, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to ddwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
So you can see how confusing this gets...trinitarian theology is found frequently in the Book of Mormon...including worshiping the Holy Spirit!
Q15 Doesn't it all boil down to how many gods you worship?
A Yes.
Thomas calls Jesus his God in John 20:28; even the Joseph Smith's concocted "Nephite disciples" called Jesus “their Lord and God” (3 Nephi 19:18).
And look @ what other Mormon "scriptures" say:
* The D&C says Jesus is God (19:4; 62:1; etc.) Since there’s only one true God in the bible and in the LDS scriptures [for example, the Mormon "scripture" from the Pearl of Great Price says "no God besides me" (1:6)]
* All this means is that either Jesus is a false god or is the one true God. As Jesus Christ is a God to Thomas (John 20:28) -- so Thomas has two gods?
I testify Jesus Christ is my only Lord, my Savior, my God! He is the Only Lord, the Only Savior, the Only True God!
Why don’t you take this to some religion site instead of burdening us with your point of view. How do you feel about Catholocism?
How do you feel about Black Liberation Theology?
How do you feel about the Religion of Peace?
Oh, you specialize in Mormonism. I see.
The Psalmists point out our sinfulness even from the womb (Psalm 51:5; 58:3)
Of almost any religion, Mormons go the furthest afield:
LDS theology has the absolute wacky understanding that the world's evils were something the Mormon god wanted man to do:
The Lds church in one of its priesthood manuals calls the Fall a "Great Blessing" while one of its general authorities, "apostle" Dallin Oaks, wrote: "Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve's act and honor her with wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall." ("The Choice that Began Mortality" Liahona, 2002)
Only in Mormonism are wars, murders, hate, idolatry, racism, rape, incest, sexual abuse, lust, theft, and other consequences of the fall a blessing to be "celebrated."
Yet...a few Book of Mormon passages are difficult to rectify with Mormon theology:
...for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters. (Mosiah 5:7)
And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, MUST be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters; And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. (Mosiah 27:25-26)
So, unlike what Lds parents may have taught their children...
...or your seminary & institute instructors...
...Mormons or others "can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God" (Mosiah 27:26) based upon some titled linkage to either some "pre-existence" or simply bearing the Mormon identity.
No, Mosiah 27:25 makes it clear: We have to be changed (past/present tense) from a carnal/fallen state to a current state or righteousness. Are you Lds currently righteous? Are you, as Mosiah said, a new changed creature? -- 'cause if you're not, you "can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God."
#1...It is in the "Religion section" of FR.
#2...Contrary to you few compartmentalizers who think you can hermetically seal "religion," take a look @ JimRob's own description of his site:
Welcome to Free Republic, America's exclusive site for God, Family, Country, Life & Liberty conservatives!
Now why do you think "God" is listed first??? Perhaps God needs to be first in your political life as well as everywhere else you've fenced Him off from...
How do you feel about Black Liberation Theology?
(Not very liberating...if at all)
How do you feel about the Religion of Peace?
Sometimes it is; sometimes it's not...[Captain Obvious there]
Seriously...I just (yesterday) posted 11 article links from past FR threads linking Obama to Islam...look it up on that thread...(if you're interested)
Actually this was more than a "theory" to Brigham Young. (After all, when you're a "living 'prophet'" -- as Mormons today say Young was...and you teach something repeatedly from the tabernackle pulpit...ya better believe it went beyond "theory" pronouncement!
Of course, the Mormons were so tickled-pink with Young-as-theologian they named their most prestigious university after him...one that Mitt Romney graduated from in 1971.
The best known, and probably earliest, controversial statement about this occurred in a 1852 Young sermon: April 9, 1852: Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken—He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, the thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50-51)
1857: Brigham Young preached that "Adam...helped to make this world...Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5,p. 331)
1859 Young taught, "Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290)
June 8, 1873: Young never gave up trying to convince the 'Utah saints.' In June, 1873, Young delivered a message in the new tabernacle in Salt Lake City the afternoon of June 8:
"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me--namely that Adam is our father and God...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve...Our Father is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to alll his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth (David W. Evans, The Deseret News, June 18, 1873 under headline of "Discourse")
I don’t know much about the Mormon religion, I know something about Mormon people, I live as neighbors, I do business with them, I visit with them, They pay their bills and are not deadbeats or trouble makers.They don’t get on welfare.
I know something about the masons and they are good , Americans, who hurt no one.
Look at the industrious, inventive things the Mormons have done in Utah. In my book they are good people. I don’t like Muslims.
This is the religion forum, don’t like religion discussions stay off the forum.
Quite a generalization, I believe that most Mormons are good people.But there are Mormons on welfare, convicted of murder,child molestation, treason and all other crimes. They are no better or worse than people of other religions. No matter how much they spend on PR they are ordinary people with the same follies as others.
How do you feel about Black Liberation Theology?
How do you feel about the Religion of Peace?
NONE of the above make the claim of being the ONLY christians like MORMONism does.
And does a darned good job of revealing the inner workings of it; don't you think?
Is there ANYTHING posted that is WRONG, that you'd like to point out to the unsuspecting?
I'll bet they'll not be happy learning THIS!!!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
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If I were an SLC MORMON; this statement would scare the HELL out of me!
Well then; READ the things posted, and you'll be a lot better informed.
Hey MORMONs!
Here is a chance for you TEACH someone that knows little about your religion.
Ya know...
I don’t know much about the Muslim religion, I know something about Muslim people, I live as neighbors, I do business with them, I visit with them, They pay their bills and are not deadbeats or trouble makers.They don’t get on welfare.
.
.
.
Look at the industrious, inventive things the Muslims have done in Dubai. In my book they are good people. I don’t like Scientologists
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