A Defense of Monergistic Regeneration

monergism.com ^ | Gannon Murphy

[armydoc]

Is the saving grace of God irresistible or resistible? Moreover, is the regenerating power of God installed in the believer's life before or after the decision is made to receive Christ as Savior?

[armydoc]

Too lazy to format a lengthy cut 'n paste, so you are burdened with an extra mouse click if you want to read the whole thing. Enjoy.

[irishtenor]

God said he would not lose any that he has called his own.

[armydoc]

Amen fellow PCA RE, amen!

[.45 Long Colt]

“Moreover, is the regenerating power of God installed in the believer’s life before or after the decision is made to receive Christ as Savior?”

Jesus said to Nicodemus, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Salvation is of the Lord from beginning to end. He’s the author and finisher of the believer’s faith. His sheep, chosen from the foundation of the world, hear His voice, they know Him and they follow Him. Knowing that His sheep will hear and believe in the day of His power should embolden all believers the utmost confidence to spread the gospel.

[.45 Long Colt]

Well, my last comment should have ended with...”should embolden all believers to spread the gospel.”

I changed what I was saying and ended up with some extra words. Oh well, it should have been obvious what I was trying to say.

[irishtenor]

NC?
I’m in Seattle, Pacific Northwest Presbytery.

[armydoc]

Central Carolina Presbytery. My pastor started as an associate under Dr. Rayburn at Faith Presbyterian in Tacoma

[ShadowAce]

So--your god creates eternal, living souls for the express purpose of throwing them into Hell?

Mine doesn't. But He does accept *our* decision to either go to Heaven or to Hell.

[armydoc]

So--your god creates eternal, living souls for the express purpose of throwing them into Hell?

I'll let St. Paul answer:

But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory (Rom 9:20-23).

But He does accept *our* decision to either go to Heaven or to Hell.

In that case, you have reason to boast, for you had the innate wisdom and goodness to 'partner up' with God to achieve your salvation. Well done! As for me, I will boast of nothing but Christ. My only contribution to my salvation is my sin.

[ShadowAce]

I'll let St. Paul answer:

I'm familiar with that passage. It does not say what you are trying to make it say.

'Why did you make me like this?' does not say "Why did you make me just to throw me into Hell? It does say "Like this", indicating our flaws and weaknesses that we must deal with and overcome to follow Christ.

"Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"

Common use does not indicate the purpose of being thrown into Hell. It does mean one who follows, rather than one who is destined for "noble purpose" like Paul or the other Apostles.

In that case, you have reason to boast...

Nope, I don't. Christ does all the work. One does not boast for merely accepting a gift or following through with a covenant.

[armydoc]

Common use does not indicate the purpose of being thrown into Hell

Then what do you do with "prepared for destruction"?

Nope, I don't. Christ does all the work. One does not boast for merely accepting a gift or following through with a covenant.

But you had the wisdom and innate goodness not to reject that gift, unlike the losers that foolishly reject. Give yourself some credit. You've earned it!

[ShadowAce]

But you had the wisdom and innate goodness not to reject that gift...

No more than anyone else. The grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

[armydoc]

No more than anyone else

If it is up to you to accept salvation, then by definition you are distinguishing yourself from those that reject. Call it wisdom or goodness or anything else; your position necessitates an innate difference between you and someone who rejects

[ShadowAce]

....then by definition you are distinguishing yourself...

Do you know what "by definition" means? It's not whatever it is you are using. Everyone makes free will decisions. Some choose one way and some don't. The decision itself does not "distinguish" me from everyone else who makes the decision one way or another.

[ShadowAce]

I noticed you very deliberately did not respond to the second sentence in my post.

[armydoc]

Yes, I know what "by definition" means. In the case of salvation, two groups are necessarily distinguished; that is made distinct from each other. In this case the distinguishing feature is the acceptance or rejection of salvation. The critical question is on what basis is the decision made? Invoking "free will" doesn't answer the question. "Free will" is not a random number generator; it does not itself choose. The actual choice is still made based on some intrinsic property of the person exercising "free will". As an aside, it is amazing how synergists will desperately cling to the idol of "free will" at the expense of God's sovereignty

[ShadowAce]

As an aside, it is amazing how synergists will desperately cling to the idol of "free will" at the expense of God's sovereignty

It is even more amazing that monergists worship such a small god that He cannot be sovereign in a universe full of truly free wills.

[armydoc]

Wow, there’s a new spin! God giving up an aspect of his sovereignty makes him “bigger”? OK then. BTW, congratulations on choosing God! He is so very pleased you made the right choice. I am sure there was some hand-wringing and nail biting in Heaven before you exercised your “free will”!

[ShadowAce]

Who said anything about Him “giving up an aspect of His sovereignty”? He’s still completely sovereign.

[ShadowAce]

I am sure there was some hand-wringing and nail biting in Heaven before you exercised your “free will”!

Probably not, but there was a celebration after it was exercised!