Posted on 04/19/2012 11:58:25 AM PDT by NYer
I saw an advance copy of a survey by William J. Byron and Charles Zech, which will appear in the April 30th edition of “America” magazine.
It was conducted at the request of David O’Connell, the bishop of Trenton, and its focus was very simple: it endeavored to discover why Catholics have left the church. No one denies that a rather substantive number of Catholics have taken their leave during the past 20 years, and Byron and Zech wanted to find out why. They did so in the most direct way possible and asked those who had quit.
The answers they got were, in many ways, predictable. Lots of people cited the church’s teachings on divorce and re-marriage, gay marriage, contraception, and the ordination of women. These matters, of course, have been exhaustively discussed in the years following Vatican II, and I’d be willing to bet that anyone, even those vaguely connected to the Church, could rehearse the arguments on both sides of those issues. But there just isn’t a lot that the church can do about them. No bishop or pastor could make a policy adjustment and announce that divorced and re-married people can receive communion or that a gay couple can come to the altar to be married or a woman present herself for ordination.
What struck me about the survey, however, was that many of the issues that led people to leave the church are indeed matters that can be addressed. Many of the respondents commented that they left because of “bad customer relations.” One woman said that she felt “undervalued by the church” and found “no mentors.” Many more said that their pastors were “arrogant, distant, aloof, and insensitive,” and still others said that their experiences over the phone with parish staffers were distinctly negative. Now I fully understand that parish priests and lay ministers are on the front lines and hence are the ones who often have to say “no” when a parishioner asks for something that just can’t be granted. Sometimes the recipient of that “no” can all too facilely accuse the one who says it as arrogant or indifferent. Nevertheless, the survey can and should be a wake-up call to church leaders—both clerical and non-clerical—that simple kindness, compassion, and attention go a rather long way. I distinctly remember the advice that my first pastor—a wonderful and pastorally skillful priest—gave to the parish secretary: “for many people, you are the first contact they have with the Catholic Church; you exercise, therefore, an indispensable ministry.” One respondent to the survey observed that whenever he asked a priest about a controversial issue, he “got rules, and not an invitation to sit down and talk.” Unfair? Perhaps. But every priest, even when ultimately he has to say “no,” can do so in the context of a relationship predicated upon love and respect.
A second major concern that can and should be addressed is that of bad preaching. Again and again, people said that they left the church because homilies were “boring, irrelevant, poorly prepared,” or “delivered in an impenetrable accent.” Again, speaking as someone who is called upon to give sermons all the time, I realize how terribly difficult it is to preach, how it involves skill in public speaking, attention to the culture, expertise in biblical interpretation, and sensitivity to the needs and interests of an incredibly diverse audience. That said, homilists can make a great leap forward by being attentive to one fact: sermons become boring in the measure that they don’t propose something like answers to real questions. All of the biblical exegesis and oratorical skill in the world will be met with a massive “so what?” if the preacher has not endeavored to correlate the “answers” he provides with the “questions” that beguile the hearts of the people to whom he speaks. Practically every Gospel involves an encounter between Jesus and a person—Peter, Mary Magdalene, Nicodemus, Zacchaeus, etc.—who is questioning, wondering, suffering, or seeking. An interesting homily identifies that longing and demonstrates, concretely, how Jesus fulfills it. When the homily both reminds people how thirsty they are and provides water to quench the thirst, people will listen.
A third eminently correctable problem is one that I will admit I had never thought about before reading this survey. Many of the respondents commented that, after they left the church, no one from the parish contacted them or reached out to them in any way. Now again, I can anticipate and fully understand the objections from pastoral people: many Catholic parishes are huge—upwards of three or four thousand families—and staffs are small. Yet, just as major corporations, serving millions of people, attend carefully to lost customers, so Catholic parishes should prioritize an outreach to those who have drifted (or stormed) away. A phone call, a note, an e-mail, a pastoral visit—anything that would say, “We’ve noticed you’re not coming to Mass anymore. Can we help? Can you tell us what, if anything, we’ve done wrong? We’d love to see you back with us.”
The problem of Catholics leaving the church is, obviously, serious and complex, and anyone who would suggest an easy solution is naïve. However, having listened to a representative sample of those who have left, parishes, priests, and church administrators might take some relatively simple and direct steps that would go a long way toward ameliorating the situation.
Uh huh. And what does Scripture record about his actual doings? Remember that Paul is all things to all men. What does your antiCatholic position and rejection of Jesus say to that?
Uh huh. And what does Scripture record about his actual doings? Remember that Paul is all things to all men. What does your antiCatholic position and rejection of Jesus say to that?
Do you understand what this says? ...It is not saying what you want it to say
It is telling us to follow the scripture..because unlike men It is perfect
Young's Literal translation .." And we have more firm the prophetic word, to which we do well giving heed, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, till day may dawn, and a morning star may arise -- in your hearts;
Certainly nothing a Catholic could Amen
"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16
Peter is telling them to read and listen to Pauls teachings ...which BTW are found today in the NT
Anyone can "read" the Bible..the question is can they rightly divide it..
Amen
Looking at the uncounted thousands of Protestant denominations and non denominational churches, the answer is obvious. Thanks for the straight line. God does work in mysterious ways.
>> “Rome is a city, not a church.” <<
.
Yes, this city:
Rev.17
[1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
[7] And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
[14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[15] And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Thank you for those Scripture passages. I know there are many, many more than confirm the same truth. If someone insists that not knowing if we are saved until judgment is taught by the “Church” and Scripture, we can see that Scripture most definitely does NOT teach that which leaves them with their “Church” holding doctrine NOT taught in Scripture. And they wonder why some people leave?
Check out Psalms 150. Would you ricicule any of the other forms of praise in this passage?
I'll believe Jesus and the Catholic Church, thank you. Nowhere in the Scripture you cited does it say that Paul was exclusively the Apostle to the Gentiles and the historical record of the Eleven traveling to all corners of the known world to evangelize is well established.
Carefully chosen verses from Acts does not negate the command from Jesus to the Eleven to "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." (Matthew 28) or the testimony that they indeed had; "But they went forth and preached everywhere,".
I often wonder how anti-Catholics travel when they travel to Europe. Do they avoid Notre Dame Cathedral or St. Marks in Venice? Avoid all the Italian art museums because they may see a beautiful representation of Christ? Several months ago I was on a Catholic thread where someone actually thought the Sistine Chapel was sinful. These folks are out of their tree!
My God, why does every anti-Catholic bigot go straight to Revelations? Can’t you people just stick with the Book of Common Prayer? It’s a good book, try it!
http://www.familylifecenter.net/article.asp?artId=201
I find it hard to belive that no one mentioned the fact that homosexual pederast priests stained the reputation of the church as one of the reasons people left.
I would say that the message of Jesus as Che Guevara is a real loser. Try dropping that.
Dunno that I would use a un-named 1993 Gallup poll as a fact of anything. Especially how many Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I’d find some data to back that claim up if it were me before I would assert it was “true”. Just sayin’.
It has its roots in colorlessness and humorlessness of the iconoclasm of Calvin where religious art was considered as an evil or at the least an extravagance. They did not see it as being a form of worship or as a time tested means of communicating the Word of God. They saw any non-written means of teaching the Word of God, even to illiterate persons, as a threat to their form of Sola Scriptura exegesis. They need education, forgiveness and prayer, not ridicule or condemnation.
A Condition , Requirement or Stipulation!!
IF =IF =IF =IF =IF =IF =IF=
IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF..............
A Condition , Requirement or Stipulation!!
"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for *IF* ye do these things, ye shall never fall" (2 Peter 1:10)
"Praise You Jesus Always!
Glory Be To The Father ,Son and Holy Spirit!"
Amen!
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