Are Mormons Christian?

Stand Up for the Truth.com ^ | April 17, 2012 | Faith

[Colofornian]

is tom cruise a member?

No, but Harry Reid is an official visiting home teacher of the Mormon church.

And of those teachings, could you clarify the difference 'tween a Scientologist "Thetan" who has no body & a pre-existent Mormon near Kolob who has yet to get a body?

Could you clarify the distinction 'tween the Scientologist vision of Venus having a "landing station" & the star/planet near Kolob being a before-and-after stomping grounds of the Mormon?

Could you clarify for us how Romney's Mormon-touted "spirit birth place" of being near Kolob (out-of-this-world alien "birthplace") is all that much different from Obama's alleged out-of-this-country birthplace?

are there mormons beheading nyt reporters?

Can you first PROVE for us -- with documentation -- Obama as a Muslim?

Secondly, if your Islamic terrorist references aren't Obama-related, don't we take our cultural cues (if we're Christians) from a certain God-Man named Jesus?

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)

So does Jesus say, "fear the Muslim decapitators?" (No)
Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)
So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk...including Mormons.

As the apostle Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:

"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)

Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)

Tell us something, longtermmemory: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important? So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"

[libdestroyer]

“Even when Vatican I (1869-1870) defined papal infallibility, it did so in terms of the Church. Vatican I stated that when the pope defines a dogma of faith (often described as speaking “ex cathedra”—from the chair), he is gifted by the Holy Spirit with that infallibility with which God wished the Church to be endowed in defining a doctrine of faith or morals.”

And exactly where in the Bible is this spiritual gift on the part of the Pope confirmed? Where in the Bible is authority given to a Pope? Where in the Bible is it taught that we should speak to dead saints for intercession? Of course I believe in Sola Scriptura so we will likely differ on most things. I believe the Bible is divinely-inspired. I do not believe the Catholic Cataclysm is though...

[Colofornian]

The Mormons say the Gospels were “lost,” not me.

Thank you for the clarification.

Re: Love vs. Truth...1 Cor. 13:6 talks about how love rejoices in the truth...It's not pitted one vs. the other...

One way to treat another is actually to love one with the truth...vs. enabling them to continue believing falsehoods.

Even tough love is love.

(Obviously, I don't endorse all done under the banner of "truth"...and the apostle Paul says to speak the truth in love)

I do give a care what others believe...I'm sorry you took issue with that...(which leads me to believe I was onto something)

[Colofornian]

NOPE there will be NO “Mormans” in heaven! NONE!

Actually, I hope like the apostle Paul did: re: the legalistic Jews of his day...that many would be saved (Romans 9:1-3)...

I only wish I could be like Paul...who said in those verses that if only he could be damned/cursed...to hell...so that the Jews would be saved...

Fortunately, Jesus was "cursed" (Gal. 3:13) & went to hell on our behalf -- including Mormons...if only they could trust in Jesus' proxy work on the cross...so they, too, could be saved (vs. a works-righteousness of their own)

[libdestroyer]

At the judgement day Christ will look upon my heart and see how I followed Him and his words and teachings. That is what it all comes down to for everyone.

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin"
~(Romans 3:19-20)

See... the Apostle Paul reveals in the book of Romans that the purpose of the law (in this case the Mosaic law) was to show that we were INCAPABLE of keeping it and thus REVEAL OUR SIN.

Although many religions (including Catholicism and Mormonism) still think we can be "good enough".

Allow me to correct your sentence:
At the judgement day the Father will look upon my heart and see how I followed Him and his words and teachings that I am covered in the blood of his Son and have been washed of my sin. That is what it all comes down to for everyone.

[JoanVarga]

Does that mean they deserved genocide in the name of the Catholic Church?

I cannot speak of deserts. I can only speak of what was, what happened, and what was the result. They were certainly practicing self-genocide in the name of Cuatlique, who gave no option of "convert or die" just simply, "die."

Much like our own society is killing its newborns. I shudder to think what we deserve.

[libdestroyer]

I’m pretty sure I’m the thread hijacker here. Whoops!
That said, I agree 100% with you. Mormonism is NOT Christianity.

[JoanVarga]

Yes, you’re onto something: assumptions.

You’re as bad as Joe Smith peeping at stones and seeing what isn’t there.

[Natural Law]

"Does that mean they deserved genocide in the name of the Catholic Church?"

The Catholic Church did not commit genocide on the peoples of the Americas. The Church sent missionaries to liberate the native populations from what many consider the most institutionally evil society in history. It was the Aztecs, who numbered only about 20% of the population of Mesoamerica who were committing genocide on its neighboring tribes. In 1487, in one four day ceremony, between 80,000 and 100,000 human victims sacrificed and then ritually eaten.

The Aztecs were overthrown in 1521 by Hernan Cortez who had a force of only 400 soldiers and 100 sailors from his scuttled ships. He relied heavily upon his alliances with the neighboring tribes who provided most of the manpower for his conquest.

Cortes and his troops killed fewer natives than were sacrificed in any given week, but millions died as a result of the diseases introduced by the Europeans. The conquered and liberated Indians rapidly embraced Christianity. In 1531 St. Juan Diego, an Aztec peasant and convert to Catholicism, had his Marian apparition. The most complete and rapid conversion took place in the following 10 years over 9 million converted to Catholicism.

[Salvation]

Go back and read your Bible. Christ gives the Keys of the Kingdom to Peter, the first Pope.

[crosshairs]

Can we count Catholicism in the non-Christian category?

No doubt.

[Natural Law]

"And exactly where in the Bible is this spiritual gift on the part of the Pope confirmed? Where in the Bible is authority given to a Pope?"

Please refer to Matthew 16. Jesus first established His desired method of Church governance and then He identified His first Pope.

Jesus introduced three forms of Church governance and specifically rejected two of them. He first considered the democratic (Sola Scriptura) method when He asked; "Who do the people say that I am?". He received several different answers, John the Baptist, Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." None of them right.

He then introduced and rejected an oligarchical form similar to the Pharisees or Sanhedrin when He asked His Apostles collectively; "Who do you say that I am?" They did not answer.

He then revealed His desired method, a theocracy under one chosen man as God had done since He chose Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Moses, David, and Solomon when Peter stepped forward, without consulting the other and said; "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."

"Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father."

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the hell shall not prevail against it."

"I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

If you want to discuss the symbolic significance of Jesus delivering this Revelation at Caesarea Philippi let me know. It is mind blowing.

[crosshairs]

The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ on the Apostles, the first Bishops! Look at the facts!!!!

That's what the Catholic Church tells you. When you are told a lie often enough it begins to sound like the truth. And so people who are raised in the RCC believe the lie.

Peter was not the leader of the Catholic church. Paul wrote in Galatians chapter 2 verse 7 that the gospel to the uncircumcised (Gentiles, anyone not Jews) was committed to Paul. The gospel to the circumcised (Jewish) was committed to Peter. Since most of us including the Catholic church are Gentiles the leader was Paul not Peter. I believe Paul taught this in other passages but this one is in my memory. ---Peter's statement of Jesus is the Christ is the Rock that Jesus church is built on, not Peter himself.

We have no further mention of Peter in the Acts of the Apostles. He seems to have gone down to Antioch after the council at Jerusalem, and there to have been guilty of dissembling, for which he was severely reprimanded by Paul (Gal. 2:11-16), who “rebuked him to his face.” After this he appears to have carried the gospel to the east, and to have laboured for a while at Babylon, on the Euphrates (1 Pet. 5:13). There is no satisfactory evidence that he (Peter) was ever at Rome. Where or when he died is not certainly known. Probably he died between A.D. 64 and 67.

The followers of Yeshua were all Jews who kept the Torah. It was the Catholic Church formed by Constantine who took away the Jewishness.

All that pagan stuff...the sign of the cross, veneration of saints, the Mass. It was the pagan Emperor Constantine who brought that stuff into the church at the instigation of corrupt Gentiles.

The Catholic Church began with the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD! Before that date the Church was pure!

[Biggirl]

What unites Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox Christians is our common baptism.

[libdestroyer]

Ok, the Catholic Church is confused here.
Christ was saying that just as Peter was given the knowledge of Christ by the Father, the rest of God’s elect will be saved in that fashion. That’s what the “keys to the kingdom” mean. The KEY is God the Father revealing to us the identity of Jesus (as well as our sin).

Think about it. Christ is the head of the church. The Pope serves no purpose. Now, there are ELDERS and church leadership but the Pope is nothing more than a spiritual leader. He is not the “holy father” and certainly not more “saintly” than any of God’s children.

That said (as much as I like theological discussion) my thread jack ends here :P

[Campion]

The Catholic Church’s doctrine is closer to Judaism than Christianity.

You mean as opposed to the Platonism and rationalism that characterizes much of Protestantism? I'll take it. Judaism is a religion founded by God, not by men. Catholicism is a religion founded by God, not by men. Two books in a series, by the same Divine Author, ought to have some similarities.

Every item on your list is provably false, BTW, but I want to zero in on one:

1. Salvation by works alone

Whoever told you this was Catholic belief lied to you, mischaracterizing as Catholic belief the heresy of Pelagianism, which the Catholic Church has repeatedly condemned. I have no hesitation about saying that they lied to you. Worse, they lied to you in God's name. That's a lot worse than "selling" indulgences, if you ask me.

This is de fide Catholic doctrine. Catholics are required to believe it under pain of heresy. Tell me where you get "salvation by works alone" out of it.

Salvation is purely by grace from beginning to end, and cannot be earned by anyone. It is sonship by adoption.

However, it matters how we live our lives. Grace is not always irresistable (pace Calvin). Salvation is a free gift; damnation can be earned. (cf Romans 6:23)

[Campion]

Of course I believe in Sola Scriptura so we will likely differ on most things.

The most unBiblical doctrine of all.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

#56 ditto bump.

If anyone doubts it, just read the on-line catechism.

[Campion]

That’s what the “keys to the kingdom” mean.

Wrong, and eisegetical.

Mt 16 refers back to Isaiah 22:22. The keys are a symbol of dynastic authority and power. The person to whom Isaiah refers is the "grand vizier" or "prime minister" of the Davidic kingdom, which is the direct OT foreshadowing of the Papacy.

The Pope serves no purpose.

Whether you think the Pope "serves a purpose" or not is irrelevant. The Church doesn't belong to you, it belongs to Christ. The only relevant question we ought to answer is whether He established the office, not whether you think it serves a purpose.

[WPaCon]

The Church sent missionaries to liberate the native populations from what many consider the most institutionally evil society in history.

I have to laugh when posters on this site act like Islam is the worst religion or movement that ever existed.

The Spanish just spent centuries battling with Muslims, and if they thought the Aztecs were worse, I'll trust their judgment.

Speaking of Spain again, there is a quote from the era of the Spanish Civil War saying that the "Republicans" were much worse than the Moors allied with the Nationalists.