[Why I Am Catholic]: Because I Love the Bible [Catholic and Open]

Patheos.comYIMCatholic ^ | August 30, 2010 | Frank Weathers

[Salvation]

Sole authority?

The Mass composed of the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist has more Sacred Scripture in it that I have ever heard when attending a service of another denomination.

So why are you saying that Catholics don’t have Scripture — we do. We just don’t interpret to meet our own needs as you do. We accept and obey the interpretation of the Magisterium, Cathecism, priest, Bishop and Pope.

[Salvation]

Have you ever looked at a Roman Missal — the book the priest uses? It used to be called the Sacramentary. Nearly everything he says is noted from the Bible. book, chapter and verse.

If you have a friend, ask him or her to take you in to talk with a Catholic priest about all the Scripture in the Mass.

[CynicalBear]

>>In the short term it takes place it does not seem good, but it is worked out to be good in the long term.<<

Not for the Romans, or for Judas, or for Satan for sure.

[CynicalBear]

Once again you nailed smvoice.

[Biggirl]

Plus also a lot of Protestants have come home to Rome.

[boatbums]

This indeed is unlikely as the readings at worship were done in Hebrew and from the Hebrew Bible. But the author admits not being a scholar right away.

Thank you. That was exactly my point. I wonder how many other people reading articles such as this do not know it either?

[annalex]

The author was making a correct broader point: that the Septuagint was the source of inspirational reading for the 1 century Jews. He overshot it a little bit claiming that it was not only inspirational reading but liturgical reading.

Certainly low-church Protestants should not even notice the distinction because they have no liturgy.

[daniel1212]

But that logic, since most of the Divine writings were established as Scripture before there ever was a church in Rome, and as unlike that entity, Scripture specifically states the Jews were the stewards of Holy Writ, (Rm. 3:2; 9:4) and to whom promises of perpetuation and guidance were given, then all should have submitted to them.

And as, like Rome, they presumed these promises and historical decent promised a level of veracity and perpetuation that forbid any dissent or replacement, thus they challenged the itinerant preacher from Nazareth, “By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?” (see Mk. 11:27-33)

To which the Lord required that they tell them by whose authority the Baptist acted, which they refused to answer on political grounds, though he also was rejected by them, as Rome rejects any who have not her sanction.

The transcendent issue is one of authority. Why would or should seekers of Truth follow this itinerant preacher from Nazareth who had not the sanction of the historical heavyweights and turned over the tables of their power?

The answer is that, in contrast to them, the Lord Jesus established His claims on Scripture, in word and in the manifest power of God it affirms, as did the apostles and early church. ( Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12)

And the most critical aspect of this basis of authority is that the of the gospel of grace, and manifest regeneration by repentant faith in it, and which kind of living effectual faith the church relies upon for its members and for storming the gates of Hell.

And which affirms that the church is that of the living God, (1Tim. 1:15) versus its institutionalized counterpart, Catholic or Protestant. “For the kingdom of God is not in word [self declaration], but in power, ” (1 Cori. 4:20) by “manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.” (2 Corinthians 4:2)

[daniel1212]

<James also tells us that faith without works is empty — nothing.<

And yet the Reformers preached strongly that the only a kind of faith which appropriates justification is one that will effect obedience toward its object: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Reformation_faith_works.html

Meanwhile, today it is RCs which come in near to last in commitment and upholding moral values in survey after survey: \http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html

[daniel1212]

<The modern Protestant translations are particularly awful.<

I also criticize them, but don’t forget your own official American Bible: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Ancients_on_Scripture.html#Remarks

[caww]

Heads up:...’Chuck Colson’ soon to be with the Lord:

It is with a heavy, but hopeful heart that I share with you that it appears our friend, brother and founder will soon be home with the Lord,” Jim Liske, CEO of Prison Fellowship Ministries, which Colson founded, said in a statement.
“Chuck’s condition took a decided turn yesterday, and the doctors advised Patty and the family to gather by his bedside,” Liske said, referring to Colson’s wife.

Colson, 80, underwent surgery this month to remove a pool of clotted blood on the surface of his brain.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/18/watergate-figure-chuck-colson-reportedly-near-death/?hpt=hp_t3

[Salvation]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2872933/posts?page=71#71

[Salvation]

I can tell that you may not know that there are 22 churches within the Catholic Church.

When you use ‘RC’ it shows that you may not know all the other Catholic Churches. Do you?

The Latin Rite (or RC) as you put it does not speak for all Catholic Churches.

[sasportas]

Good post, daniel, authority is what this is all about. I just posted this on another thread about Constantine. He was the authority sitting upon his throne ruling over the Bishops at Nicea. Not exactly in the same vein as your post, but I think you can catch the drift:
............................

Catholics claim the church conquered the Roman Empire, but in reality the Roman Empire conquered the church - by making the church over into the image of the Roman Empire.

Beginning with Constantine, the church changed its nature, entered its great apostasy, became a political organization in the spirit and pattern of Imperial Rome, and took a nose-dive into a thousand years of Papal tyranny and abominations.

The Imperial Church became an entirely different institution from the persecuted church of the first centuries. In its ambition to rule and subjugate all to the Pope it became the persecutor.

Worship, at first very simple,was developed into elaborate, stately, imposing ceremonies having all the outward splendor that formerly belonged to pagan temples.

Ministers became priests. The term “priest”was not applied to Christian ministers before a.d.200. It was borrowed from the Jewish system, and from pagan priesthood. The Catholic priesthood eventually became celibate, forbidden to marry by the law of the Imperial Church.

Conversion of the pagan masses filled the church with all kinds of pagan practices and philosophies. Various Greek and Oriental philosophies became amalgamated with Christianity.

Was all this Constantine’s fault? Not really, he only did what Emperors normally do, he took charge. We have all the weak-backed compromising Bishops, who allowed Constantine to sit in the place of authority over them at Nicea, who sold out the true church to statism, transforming it into an Imperial church, to thank.

[daniel1212]

The statement was that “the RCC does not have scripture as its central authority,” which is a fact. Many of her teachings are from Tradition, and while she may invoke texts to support them (though rarely infallibly defining them), that is only an interpretation, and what gives their claims authority is not the weight of Scriptural warrant, but the premise that Rome is uniquely assuredly infallible (conditionally).

Thus as a another RC web apologist just told me, “We do not need to prove her perpetual virginity or anything else about her from Scripture.”

And while the RC has great liberty to interpret Scripture to support Rome (as they interpret her), and will use it as if it were the supreme authority, their goal is to bring one to provide implicit assent of faith in what the assuredly infallible magisterium states, (providing they know it has spoken infallibly, which can be a matter of interpretation).

And while RCs attack evangelicals as having no infallible interpreter of their supreme doctrinal authority, and making fallible decisions as to what to believe, the RC does not have an assuredly infallible interpreter of their supreme doctrinal authority, but has made a fallible decision to trust it.

[daniel1212]

I can tell that you may not know that there are 22 churches within the Catholic Church.

When you use ‘RC’ it shows that you may not know all the other Catholic Churches. Do you?

The Latin Rite (or RC) as you put it does not speak for all Catholic Churches.

Thank you for confirming that (and your considerate manner), and while usually the use of “RC” is warranted as Roman Catholicism is what is being promoted in particular, and in order to especially distinguish between the EOs who dissent from things at issue, in this case i should have just used Catholics, as the surveys which the links reference do not all make that distinction.

However, as the percentage of of other Catholics in the US is very very small, it is justified to say that these stats are indicative what Roman Catholics attest to.

And I certainly did know there are other Catholic churches,

Sources: http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2009/12/special-pleading-of-sola-ecclesia-ists.html (left) http://www.friesian.com/popes.htm#popes (right)

[Natural Law]

"I just posted this on another thread about Constantine."

And I just posted this in response:

Beginning with Constantine the Church was no longer an outlaw organization and being a member was no longer punishable by death. Changes like that tend to change public behaviors.

I never cease to be depressed when those who claim to be Christian see their fellow Christians as the source of all evil and a more worthy target for their hatred and vitriol than radical Islam, atheistic secularism, humanism, modernism, and Satanism. I pray that those who do and see differences in doctrine as somehow demonic and intentionally sinful as opposed to simple error. Those who hold those thoughts are demonstrably not Christians.

Jesus' repeated command to us is to love one another and the definition of love is the desire for good for the other simply for the sake of the other. If we only love those who love us or are like us it is not love but a form of egotism.

As St. Thomas Aquinas taught, the greatest love is found in the shared love a transcendental third thing. For example, we may both like each other based upon nothing more than a shared like of the same baseball or football team. The greater the love for that transcendental third, the greater the bond between us. Christian marriage needs to be based upon a greater love for the bond of marriage and the "us" formed than for the love of our spouse or self. If we both express the ultimate love for God, we should therefore have a love between us that transcends the differences of definition, doctrine and the punctuation in Koine Greek idioms that too many choose to divide us.

"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you." - John 15:12

[daniel1212]

Thanks. Never saw you before in these exchanges. Member since 2003!

“But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. “ (Galatians 4:29)

Sadly, the use of physical force to conquer theological foes is something some of the early Reformers followed Rome in, and needed to unlearn.

[presently no screen name]

We just don’t interpret to meet our own needs as you do

Where did you get that lie from ' meet the needs '? Who is deceiving you?

We accept and obey the interpretation of the Magisterium, Cathecism, priest, Bishop and Pope.

GOD'S OWN, HIS church, obey THE WORD, as revealed by The HOLY SPIRIT, NOT man, NEVER man! Satan uses man to deceive others, he can't use THE HOLY SPIRIT. God's Word is HOLY SPIRIT breathe, IT'S HIS WORD.

[presently no screen name]

This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you

Love them enough to tell them the TRUTH.

GOD'S WORD ALONE REIGNS, JESUS IS THE WORD.

WHO would REJECT that love?