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To: laotzu

A private group of people of there own free will join together to do something collectively is no more communist then a husband wife and kid , a Church pot luck, or a barn raising...private free will vs public government imposed....by that logic a free republic fund raising is a tax on the public


5 posted on 04/16/2012 7:48:02 AM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: tophat9000; laotzu; All
A private group of people of there own free will join together to do something collectively is no more communist then a husband wife and kid , a Church pot luck, or a barn raising...private free will vs public government imposed....by that logic a free republic fund raising is a tax on the public

Well, let's distinguish 19th century "United Order" Mormonism from today's Mormonism. Even George Givens, a Mormon author, described Brigham Young’s communist-built community of Orderville, Utah as “pure communism”:

"When Brigham Young established Orderville and similar United Orders, John Taylor was less than enthusiastic. He realized that enterprises such as Orderville were pure communism and not the law of consecration. He made this plain after he became President, when in 1882 he sent an epistle to all authorities of the Church in which he bluntly stated: 'We had no example of the 'United Order' in accordance with the word of God on the subject...Our relations with the world and our own imperfections prevent the establishment of this system [i.e. the system of consecration and stewardship spoken of at times as the 'United Order'] at the present time, as was stated by Joseph in an early day, it cannot yet be carried out.'" (George W. Givens, 500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, 2004, p. 169)

The truly unfortunate thing for world history is that John Taylor didn’t go far enough, for while he dismantled Orderville, he left another “United Order” community (Brigham City, Utah) alone.

Here is Givens again (a faithful Mormon author):

"One of the most famous utopian books ever written was Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy, published in 1889. Some scholars believe Looking Backward had considerable influence in the making of Lenin's Soviet Russia. If this is true, then [ensuing Lds "prophet"] Lorenzo Snow and the Latter-day Saints must receive some of the credit--or blame. Hearing of the success of the United Order in Brigham City, Edward Bellamy made a special trip to Utah in 1886 to study its operation. There he spent three days with Lorenzo Snow, Brigham City's founder and forty-year resident. Impressed with the thirty to forty industries run by its 2,000 inhabitants and the vitality at that time of one of the most successful United Orders, Bellamy returned home and wrote his influential book." (500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, p. 185).

Way to go, 19th century Mormon leader-“prophets” of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor & Lorenzo Snow!!! They all unwittingly fueled Soviet Communism!

8 posted on 04/16/2012 8:09:48 AM PDT by Colofornian ( The Romneybots are political descendents of Esau: Trading a FR inheritance for a 'lentil soup' guy)
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To: tophat9000

You are exactly right. In fact, Communism works great when it is voluntary and done in small communities, on a local level.

It is when Governments try to impose it on large diverse populations that the results are disastrous.

I, for one, will not be piling on with the anti-Mormon brigade. Yes, they are quirky and have some strange and troubling practices, but by and large, Mormons are generally self-sufficient and responsible. I have personally not had any bad dealings with Mormons.

There are a million good reasons to oppose Mitt Romney. His Mormonism is not one of them. I’m more concerned with his liberalism.


19 posted on 04/16/2012 9:48:22 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: tophat9000; laotzu; Colofornian

.private free will vs public government imposed....

- - - - -
You are missing the point, at the time in Utah, the LDS church WAS the government (the state of Deseret) and thus it was government imposed communism.

My gripe with this is not only did the LDS church turn away from a divine command of communism, but uses their non-profit status as a way of avoiding taxation on their business enterprises. I would object to any other church doing that as well.


20 posted on 04/16/2012 10:01:51 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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