Posted on 04/15/2012 7:50:59 PM PDT by marshmallow
Thousands of Christians from around the world gathered in Jerusalem's Church of the Holy Sepulcher Saturday to witness a flame that is believed to emerge miraculously from the tomb of Jesus a day before Easter, according the older Julian calendar, each year.
The special ceremony at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, built at a site where Jesus was crucified and buried, was attended by Christian pilgrims and clerics wearing their robes amid the presence of Israeli police, riot-prevention forces and border security guards.
"I am here because I would like to see the Easter Week from the Holy Land, because I think it is a very unique experience," The Associated Press quoted Nerea Craditotto, a Spanish pilgrim, as saying. Eastern Orthodox churches and others will celebrate Easter on Sunday.
The Christians and clergy standing close to the tomb area lit their candles first and then passed on the flames to others queuing in alleys outside the ancient church. The Holy Fire is revered by many as the power of Resurrection of Jesus and the fire of the Burning Bush of Mount Sinai as mentioned in the Old Testament.
Orthodox Christians say the Holy Fire miracle occurs every year on the day before their Easter. The miracle has been documented each year for over 1,000 years. Christians in many countries, including Georgia, Greece, Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Belarus, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Lebanon and Egypt, watch the ceremony live on television each year. After the ceremony, the Holy Fire is brought to some of these countries.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...
I agree. Signs can deceive.
The Jews will not come to faith (in the last days) however, by a sign, rather they will “look on the one they pierced and mourn” (Zecahariah 12:10).
In the last days the anti-christ will pout out counterfeit signs and wonders (Mat 24:24).
Signs are not for believers. They are for unbelievers. And signs can be counterfeit. (Exodus 7:10-12). Pharoh’s magicians counterfeited a sign of turning a rod into a snake. So it will be in the last days.
We already have all the signs we need, according to God.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
If you continue reading Romans 1, you will see that God says the entire creation testifies to his existence, and to good, and light. We are without excuse. If we just accept the truth, God will give us more.
The problem is NOT we don’t have a sign. It’s that our ways are wicked and we would prefer to continue on in our sins, rather than turn toward the light.
The “desire” for a sign is just an excuse to continue in our own ways.
I agree. Signs can deceive.
The Jews will not come to faith (in the last days) however, by a sign, rather they will “look on the one they pierced and mourn” (Zecahariah 12:10).
In the last days the anti-christ will pout out counterfeit signs and wonders (Mat 24:24).
Signs are not for believers. They are for unbelievers. And signs can be counterfeit. (Exodus 7:10-12). Pharoh’s magicians counterfeited a sign of turning a rod into a snake. So it will be in the last days.
We already have all the signs we need, according to God.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
If you continue reading Romans 1, you will see that God says the entire creation testifies to his existence, and to good, and light. We are without excuse. If we just accept the truth, God will give us more.
The problem is NOT we don’t have a sign. It’s that our ways are wicked and we would prefer to continue on in our sins, rather than turn toward the light.
The “desire” for a sign is just an excuse to continue in our own ways.
Since you’ve raised the question, what are the fruits of the Holy Land Christians then?
I must sound like a broken record.
The answer is in scripture.
Galatians 5:22
but the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.
You answered: "but the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control."
Are you asserting that these ARE the fruits of the Holy Land Christians or are you asserting that these ARE NOT the fruits of the Holy Land Christians?
If it is the latter, you've made a mighty accusation against these Christian brothers. Can you support it?
You can (or anybody else) call themselves a Christian. That does not mean you are one. The scripture is right. Christians are known by their fruit, their love for one another, and gradual progression toward Christ’s character.
If you doubt what I say, check out Matthew 7:21-23, then backup and read 7:1-21.
You strike me as someone trying to cause an issue, rather than find the truth.
It’s not ours to judge - it’s Jesus’s sole responsibility
Sometimes you are beaten down and struggling, and you begin to question "Why, Lord, Why?" Does it make one a "bad" Christian? Probably. I'm not the one to judge. But in my own experience, during a dark midnight of the soul, when I could not fathom the horror of living even one more minute, and begged my Savior for grace, the room was suddenly filled with the sweet and unmistakable fragrance of roses, occasioned by a palpable comforting of the soul and a lifting of the oppression - it was a sign, a miracle. And it made all the difference.
I am a crappy human being, and a poor excuse for one of God's children. But I believe I was blessed to be in the presence of the Holy Spirit.
It has never been easy to walk the straight and narrow. For me it is a daily struggle against my natural inclination to sin.
Sometimes I think God sees this, recognizes it, and throws us a crutch.
Don’t confuse Grace, and comfort with a miracle.
God does Comfort us. There is such a thing as spiritual warfare.
When we get caught in it, rely on God’s promises. There are PLENTY of them. Meditate over them. Remind you (by mentioning them to God), of his promises. God is good. We can’t understand the beginning from the end, but God know it. He knows what’s best for us.
So you know nothing about the fruits of the Holy Land Christians but choose to judge them anyway?
How is seeing a real miracle or being fooled by a fake one a “fruit”?
What bible do you read?
Benny Hinn’s?
I see you are obsessed with finding the mote in the eyes of others.
Perhaps you should bother to read those initial chapters of Matthew 7.
If you believe it to be fake, go and prove it. Then you’ll be able to show the courage of your convictions.
obsessed with finding a mote?
Nope. Just trying to remind folks that there ARE counterfeit signs and wonders and we have been warned about them time and time again in scriptures.
Christians should not be operating out of signs and wonders. Period.
You claim it is counterfeit but you make this charge without anything to support you.
Bearing false witness is how Scripture describes that.
If quoting scripture (from Christ’s teachings) about signs and miracles is considered to you as bearing false witness, then I am guilty.
What should we be doing? Looking for a sign and performing miracles, or helping the sick and poor? Let’s see what Jesus says about it.
Matt 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matt 25:31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
What evidence do you have that they are not helping the sick and poor?
Again, you have nothing, nothing, nothing.
Just pure hatred for Christians who dare to challenge your own personal interpretations of Scripture.
You violate Scripture more than you quote it.
A simple question:
If you KNOW where you are going, do you need a road sign?
Or is a sign required for those in doubt as to which is the right direction?
Has not God provided us with innumerable truths? The problem is not that we don’t have enough information for us to become and stay believers, the problem is that mankind (me included) love the dark. It is only by accepting God’s truth that we move toward the light. This is roughly a paraphrase of Romans 1:20 and forwards.
Further, as to the last days (which I believe we are in), we are FURTHER warned about lying signs and wonders
2 Thessolonians 9 say: The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
So once again, it’s safe to be a believer, and dangerous to put one’s belief to the test through signs and wonders.
As to whether or not what happened(s) in Jerusalem is a true (or lying sign). is not the issue. What IS the issue — are we, or are we NOT told to trust in signs and wonders, especially in the last days?
Faith is the EVIDENCE of things NOT SEEN —— signs are seen.
Who’s putting their faith through a test?
But thank you for showing that you have nothing to present but your own false witness against the Holy Land Christians.
I think your should read a little on the background of the place where this is occurring, the various factions that control it, and their continued disagreements.
The early Christians were known for their love for one another, even to the point of dying for each other. They were not known for fistfights among various sects.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.