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To: Theo; fso301
Since I was courtesy pinged to your comment:

Do you believe that Jesus overruled the laws of nature in order to perform His miracles?

I differ slightly from fso301 here. I simply do not know. I have seen things that would be considered miracles by anyone, that simply made no sense going by what we know. I also accept that we don't know or understand more than 1/1000th of the complexity of the natural laws laid down at creation.

Did He really walk on water? Did He really change water to wine? Did He really cause dead people to come back alive? Did He really make a violent storm come to an end by speaking to it?

It is in the book. The last two could have rational scientific explanations given even now, the first two cannot by our current understanding.

The Creator, since before the beginning, has been injecting Himself into His creation, overruling the laws of nature.

Now I can agree with that, for it is also in the Word. He talked to Abraham and Moses in person. You don't get a voice coming out of a burning bush no matter how you try. Maybe the odd word from the crackle of the flames - we've all had that, but not a conversation. A burning peyote cactus on the other hand .... He physically lead the Israelites as a pillar of smoke or fire.

115 posted on 03/21/2012 9:31:52 AM PDT by EnglishCon (Gingrich/Santorum 2012.)
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To: EnglishCon; Theo
Do you believe that Jesus overruled the laws of nature in order to perform His miracles?
I differ slightly from fso301 here. I simply do not know. I have seen things that would be considered miracles by anyone, that simply made no sense going by what we know. I also accept that we don't know or understand more than 1/1000th of the complexity of the natural laws laid down at creation.

I don't believe I differ from EnglishCon. Because God exists outside of creation, he is not necessarily bound to the natural laws he created for our universe when operating within it. However, that doesn't mean he wouldn't first use his comprehensive knowledge of the natural laws governing this universe to effect what we call miracles.

Because humans do not come anywhere near having a comprehensive understanding of physical laws, I first allow that what we call miracles are feats which may be carried out via laws which while presently unknown to science are never-the-less part of the natural laws governing this universe. Only after ruling out natural law would I conclude a particular act was performed outside all natural laws but it will be a long time before humans are in a position to make such determination.

The Creator, since before the beginning, has been injecting Himself into His creation, overruling the laws of nature.

Now I can agree with that, for it is also in the Word. He talked to Abraham and Moses in person. You don't get a voice coming out of a burning bush no matter how you try.

Have you heard of flame speakers and plasma speakers?

120 posted on 03/21/2012 10:52:33 AM PDT by fso301
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