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To: MarkBsnr; aruanan; Dutchboy88

Mark, I have explained numererous times, and with numerous Scripture Paul’s commission by direct revelations from the risen Christ. Do you think he lied? Do you not believe Christ gave him instructions, a commission, the apostleship to the Gentiles? Why do you insist that to understand Paul’s unique calling in the mystery, hid in God, from the foundation of the world until revealed to him, is to deny Christ? It doesn’t make sense, in any sense of understanding Paul’s writings. Over and over again, in every letter, every epistle, every doctrine, it is ALL about Christ and His revelations to Paul for the Church the Body of Christ. Us. Please, I’ve communicated too long with you for you to continue to make this a “choose one or the other” game. To not believe what Paul said Christ gave to him is to call Paul a liar or Christ a liar. You wanna choose that? Soitenly not...I’m sure :)


114 posted on 03/19/2012 7:28:17 PM PDT by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice
Mark, I have explained numererous times, and with numerous Scripture Paul’s commission by direct revelations from the risen Christ. Do you think he lied?

Nope.

Do you not believe Christ gave him instructions, a commission, the apostleship to the Gentiles?

I believe that Paul's commission was in addition to, not a replacement for the missions of the rest of the Apostles. Remember that he had to go to them and be examined by them before they accepted him.

Why do you insist that to understand Paul’s unique calling in the mystery, hid in God, from the foundation of the world until revealed to him, is to deny Christ?

I don't. You are the one insisting I do. We believe that Paul was called by Christ to help with the fledgling Church's survival. Remember that Paul was a salesman. Also please note that when you follow Acts and Paul's letters, he spends more time either with the Jews or (towards the end) more with the converted Christians. Paul is to become all things to all men to help the Church survive and grow. It was Peter that converted the first men to Christianity after Pentecost. Paul is important, but so is Peter. The school and church I grew up in are both named Sts. Peter and Paul. Not Peter or Paul.

It doesn’t make sense, in any sense of understanding Paul’s writings. Over and over again, in every letter, every epistle, every doctrine, it is ALL about Christ and His revelations to Paul for the Church the Body of Christ. Us. Please, I’ve communicated too long with you for you to continue to make this a “choose one or the other” game.

I'm not. You are. The Gospel is both the Word and the word of God. If you think that Paul's message is different than the Gospels and the teachings of the 12 are different, it is your interpretation of Paul that is faulty.

To not believe what Paul said Christ gave to him is to call Paul a liar or Christ a liar. You wanna choose that? Soitenly not...I’m sure :)

Paul was a salesman, sent by God to serve the Church (not to supplant or surpass the message of Jesus, but to put it in sales talk) but Paul's message can be, as Peter says, misinterpreted to one's destruction. Same as misinterpreting any salesman's delivery.

1 Corinthians 9: 19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23

Paul is a super salesman, and was a critical part of the success of the Church. Jesus was the whole basis of the Church - I hope we don't have to debate that again. But what was Peter?

Acts 15: 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Peter is the leader of the 12. Paul had to come to Peter to receive the sniff test, as it were (which Paul resented all his life).

Acts 2: 14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” ... 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

This is what their roles were. Peter the leader of the Church, steward of Christ until His return. Paul, the energetic salesman with his small band of merry marauders, performing hit and run raids against the Jews until the churches under his jurisdiction started to flourish, then paying more attention to them. But his churches were stocked with more Jews than Gentiles, if his journeys were any indication. So was his claim of evangelizer to the Gentiles sales talk?

167 posted on 03/21/2012 5:22:26 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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