Posted on 03/11/2012 4:27:55 PM PDT by Heart-Rest
Well I agree with you, but Christ outlines IN scripture ALL we need to be saved (and it is Him), faith in Him, and “not of our own” provided by God. So I disagree with your original premise, because it isn’t true. Our faith only comes because of God’s grace, not the following the Church or it’s teachings, not even the ordinances. -JS
Many? If I have a difference of opinion regarding Catholic doctrine am I an anti-Catholic?
It's by Faith, Grace and Mercy that one gets to received the living Lord in the Eucharist.
It's by Faith, Grace and Mercy that one gets to received the living Lord in the Eucharist.
“A Church with no New Testament for 7 years?
How did it ever survive? [sarc] “
One might ask, how did the nation of Israel survive, since the first five books were written by, essentially, Moses. Then the books of prophecies and so forth by the various prophets at various further times; of course the Psalms much later by David, Proverbs to a great degree by Solomon, etc.
They had direct revelation from God, through the prophets. The canon of the Old Testament was slowly, over the centuries, assembled.
So in the first several years of the church, many believers had heard Jesus directly, prior to His death and resurrection. Jesus names all the apostles to preach and teach with His authority (not just one apostle, mind you), and gives further instruction about choosing out elders and deacons. During this time the apostles write the New Testament; by the time they are dead the New Testament is complete. The inspired epistles and gospels are accepted as the canon of the New Testament.
I don’t think it’s that hard to understand or accept.
Catholic-Protestant food fight: Round 8,174
I’d be interested in knowing what you think the role of the Bible is, then. Why did God have it written, preserving it so carefully, declaring it to be inspired and so on?
Is it a list of guidelines? Some interesting history? A framework of suggestions for the Magisterium to improve upon?
Or the Word of God?
If it is the Word of God, then, no man including the Pope gets to add to it or cancel any out.
If it’s not the Word of God, then, what is it?
Catholic-Protestant food fight: Round 8,174
I hope Jesus sets up your dwelling in the Lutheran section of heaven.
The literal translation of that is an area of disagreement between many Protestants and the Catholic Church. The meaning of the term in John 3:3 does not mean "again", but means a regeneration; being "born from above". This word has a dual meaning so it is further clarified by Jesus.
"Jesus answered, “Amen, Amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.” - John 3:5-7
So how can any church today use only the Bible -[OT/NT] as its only source of faith, when the early Church didn`t have the written NT for 7 years?
According to the former, the latter would not qualify as a legitimate church today coz it didn`t have nor relied on the written NT when it started.
haha!
“If this is the case, why would anyone try to elicit the help of a dead Christian?”
Don’t you understand that, even though God loves all of us, He loves some of us more than others? So, he might deny us ordinary folks a grace or favor, but if we get one of his “favorites” to intercede, then we can trick God into giving us what we seek! /s
I hear you brother. I’m a Catholic who catches hell because I’ve said I don’t recognize the Vatican or the authority of the Pope. I believe in The Holy Trinity. I suppose I’m a gnostic in the tradition of St. Thomas. In any event there isn’t anyone of this Earth who is going to tell me I’m not a Catholic. None of my detractors bought me into this world, they didn’t baptize me, they aren’t going to take me out of this world and they sure a shooting aren’t going to sit in judgement of me either.
“So how can any church today use only the Bible -[OT/NT] as its only source of faith, when the early Church didn`t have the written NT for 7 years?
According to the former, the latter would not qualify as a legitimate church today coz it didn`t have nor relied on the written NT when it started.
haha!”
I don’t think you understand my point.
If my church today had the twelve apostles running around, directly anointed by God, and sending epistles out with directions about how things are and what to believe and do, that would be fine.
Because the apostles had a finite lifespan, they wrote. Their words are still with us as the New Testament.
So, the first 5-7 years, I’d have listened to the apostles, and of course all the Old Testament.
After the apostles were gone, like now, I’d have their writings to rely upon.
I could not care less what any man may say. God Himself is MORE than big enough to see to His revelation to mankind—the Bible. And Jesus, Who is God, is consistent, never changing. The words are His, whether they come through Moses or John or any of the other prophets and apostles.
Your mind will not be swayed, nor will mine be swayed to the man-made traditions of catholicism. My best wishes go to you.
Thanks you. An excellent summary of the relevant points.
There are a few people in the forum who lose no opportunity to attack the Catholic Church, and I don’t suppose anything less than being knocked off their horses by God Himself will persuade them differently.
There is also a practical matter, related to the purpose of this forum. We all need to find allies and work together if the evil invading our culture and our country is ever to be defeated. Small government libertarians need to work with social conservatives, because neither can go it alone. Similarly, Protestants need to work with Catholics against those who want to kill babies, lead our children into sin, destroy the institution of marriage which was founded by God at the creation of Adam and Eve, and persecute all Christians for their faith.
Did a few priests sin against children, mostly back in the 1960s and 1970s? They did so because they had veered away from the teachings of their Church, and against the explicit prohibition of such activities by their Church. They did so because of the “countercultural revolution” and the “sexual revolution” of the 60s, which undermined the teachings of their church. It also undermined every other institution at that time. So why is it only Catholic priests who are blamed and attacked?
The obvious answer is that the Church stood in the way of those who wanted the sexual revolution, who wanted gay marriage, who wanted man-boy relationships. It’s understandable why those sorts of people would want to smear the Church for the sins of a few of its members. (And, yes, they were sins, I’m not excusing them.)
Don’t these Freepers realize that in constantly attacking Catholics like that, they are doing the work of the devil by helping the immoral left? They are picking up where the Old Gay Lady left off. We can agree to differ on points of religion, but we need to stop fighting among ourselves and start working at the immense job of bringing our country back to moral sanity.
Although there were many inspired writings as early as 40 AD there was no New Testament for another 300 years.
Simple answer: Yes!
Another tare goes from Protestant to catholic?
Wow! - next thing you know lesbians will be gay.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.