Kenneth Copeland; Tongues as Languages Not Learned etc

That curious, mystifying space between Quix's ears | 9 MAR 2012 | Quix

[Quix]

I'm a bit loathe to wade into such again. However, The Lord HAS brought to my awareness a couple of things this past week that kind of goad me into posting. I'm MORE loathe to allow Holy Spirit to go unrepresented on such scores on FR after the recent thrashing His works received on that other locked thread.

I'm NOT interested in going around and around with the more irrationally and unBiblically harsh posters on that other thread. They will likely arrive and rant as they did on that thread. I may or may not respond with pics and gifs. I don't plan to engage them with yet more futile words.

And, the chronically, habitually, generally carpy naysayers can just go suck rock candy or lolly pops. Their reaping is already scheduled. If they want to earn more of such from The Lord, that's their business.

I know the authenticity of Holy Spirit's gifts and workings in my own life. I have to be responsible to His interactions with me and leadings of me in my own life. And, as I feel led, to speak up in behalf of His gifts in this era.

I don't feel responsible to try and bore a hole and pour it in. And, I am not inclined to get two bricks and try and make the camel drink water. Doesn't work with women anyway.

That said . . .

I learned this week that the wife of a close relative of mine was miraculously healed in a Kenneth Copeland service. She had a serious case of . . . [serious]. . . cancer in advanced stages and was not expected to live. Her blood count was 5 but I don't know what aspect of her blood count was 5. Maybe I'll find out and post it later.

My relative had escorted her to the front row where she sat, unable to stand and looking like 'death warmed over' in extreme weakness.

Kenneth instructed his wife Gloria to go down and lay hands on her. She was immediately and totally healed. She went to the Doc for an already scheduled appointment the next day. He said there was no sign of cancer anywhere in her body and that he was dumfounded as he was never wrong.

As I understand it, the medical verification documentation is quite conclusive. She may even publish it all in her own narrative in due course. I'm not inclined to give more info for my privacy.

I think I learned that this last Tuesday evening.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Last Wednesday evening at church, Pastor related the following narrative.

She had been on a mission trip to Guatemala. In one of their gatherings in one of the poorest churches--a ramshackle tin building affair . . . a local church member began to give a message in tongues. This person had never learned English at all.

The woman spoke quite clear English and told of how God was going to give them a newer larger building much better for their church.

The woman had no idea what she had said. When Pastor's team told her what she'd said, she broke down almost in convulsions for joy and in humility over the Lord using her so to bring such a longed for message to her congregation. As I understand it, that did then transpire exactly as she'd declared in a language she did not know.

On the same mission trip, they went to a very wealthy church led by a Pastor who lived in a wealthy home with marble walls etc. Pastor visited the man's opulent home.

Holy Spirit spoke to Pastor and told her that the man was having an affair with his secretary and that Pastor must confront him and call him to repentance. Pastor has a very powerful prophetic gifting though is not per se a prophet.

Pastor told their local tour guide who was in personal relationship with all the pastors of the churches they visited--including this wealthy one. She replied to Pastor: "You'd better be right!"

Pastor confronted him and he admitted it. He did not repent but justified it with sleezey rationalizing that he was 'supposed to love the sheep.'

I felt when Pastor related the story that the man has since, rather soon after that, died but I haven't verified that even with Pastor. She may not know.

[metmom]

That’s what I thought........

[boatbums]

And those that do are soon going to find that those things can be gone in a very short time and then they will realize that in comparison to eternity they don’t amount to much. Some think that because they have all those things that God is blessing them but scripture tells us that He sends the rain on the just and the unjust.

Good point. Just reading Psalm 73 is eye-opening. Here David was "envious of the foolish when I saw the prosperity of the wicked (v.3). "For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm. They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men." (vs. 3,4) "Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish." (v.7) "Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches." (v. 12) "For all the day long have I been plagued, and chastened every morning." (v.14) But then God showed him the reality:

"When I thought to know this, it was too painful for me; Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end. Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction. How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors." (vs. 16-19)

And David came to the conclusion, "Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever. For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee. But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works." (vs. 25-28)

[Quix]

Given

that you don’t seem thrilled with Kenneth’s interpretation of such a Scripture:

Please give us YOUR interpretation.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

John 10:33-35

King James Version (KJV)

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

[caww]

Reading those quotes from Copeland honestly made me shudder! How is it possible a man who claims to know the Bible comes out with that kind of garbage? Of course, his defenders will probably say, "Oh, he was exaggerating." or "He USED to teach that but he's got his head on straight now." All I can think is these guys are stating, no demanding, that they ARE speaking by direct revelation of the Holy Spirit. So how is it they can now go back and correct themselves? How is it the Holy Spirit was wrong?

Yes, they do make one shudder....and there's more of that from these so called "Prophets".

You are asking all the right questions which unfortunately few would even consider...they are far too often caught up in the ecstasy of their experiences over using their heads and seeking out what is true.

BTW all those who are false teachers claim to know the scriptures. Even those in the occults and su ch as witchcraft etc. and just for clarity...Britain is having their hands full of a revival of the pagan ancient religions. So you can see that the world is certainly shaping up for the deception in a big way....and fast since the computer communicates all these quickly and people stay in contact.

You are correct...ANY today who are claiming New revelation should be ignored...in fact run from them. They are indeed from the devil but as you say too many don't heed that advice...in fact they follow these leaders instead.

I know that Jesus said the time would come when we would see more and more of these...but as with other events of our day these false teachers are multiplying....I'm sure the enemy of men's souls knows that his time is short.

The Emergent Church also is taking hold with their false Prophets claiming new revelation and a restoration of Prophets. ..and this from 'within' the Christian community...and the New Age Spirituality is now well over a million....all this Just as Jesus said it would be.

We know that it's written there would be a great falling away from Christianity..and this has been going on pretty fast since the 60's.....but it all has it's roots in the old old story....."You can be like God"...knowing....and powerful.....that goes for Pentecostalism, New Age, Mormonism and all the others laying claim to New Revelations.....all which in one form or another claim empowerment and focus on mans attaining it.

Copeland, Hinn and so many others are fast loosing their masses as other more "modern" false teachers now rise their ugly heads to replace them.

.....and they will all claim they are speaking for Christ...and in His name....just as they are doing today.

[Quix]

I never have found

linear logic

to be the strong suit of naysayers in general . . . not in Christianity and not, really, in much of any sphere.

Emotionality tends to rule the day.

Which is a real paradox given tongues naysayers’ hostility to

“All that emotionalism stuff.”

Sigh.

[boatbums]

So, are you saying Cynical Bear was not “invited” to this thread of yours? You didn't ask those of us that disputed with you in the last thread to join either but, guess what, this is an open forum and anyone can join in to the dialog. You, in other words, don't OWN the thread. Maybe if you had your very own website where you can say what you want as well as control who is allowed to talk back to you, you would have a point. But the last time I checked, JimRob didn't hand Free Republic over to you to control the threads. Tuff beans!

[Quix]

More pique at another straw dog!

Arguing from silence . . . yet again.

[presently no screen name]

All I see from your response is more *blame the victim* mentality. It’s the fault of the people listening to him that they get duped because they didn’t check it out for themselves, never the fault of Copeland who is teaching known heresy.

Yeah if they feel 'victimized' - LEAVE. How am I blaming ANYONE? I am NOT into the blame game like you, you are the one always looking who to blame.

Whining and complaining and around the mountain one more time!

And here many of us are, checking it out for ourselves using the Bible that you say they have to check, and we are getting castigated for it by the Copeland defenders.

Busy little bees. Getting castigated - "Victim' again. LOL!! And hopefully you guys have a microscope. Remember as you judge, you will be judged also.

Fine. Defend your teacher of heresy and don’t bother checking him out. But don’t expect the rest of us to be duped like that.

You need to get a gripe and stop saying what is not true. He is not my teacher - show me where I said that. Where is your proof of what you say?

I don't need to 'check him out', you do. You have a NEED for such.

But don’t expect the rest of us to be duped like that.

Why - did you go to him and get healed and want to know for sure if it's from God?

How can you be duped if you don't listen to him? It isn't about being duped but the new career for the 'holier than thou' crowd.

[Quix]

Y’all sure make it easier to understand naysayer’s mangling of Scripture given

how much y’all

—mangle my words;
—put erroneous words in my fingers;
—put erroneous thoughts in my head;
—put erroneous motivations in my heart;

yadda yadda yadda

Impressive.

[caww]

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

..........The common denominator is self......... Not everyone would identify with the desire to become a god, but that is the lie that hooked not only Eve but her descendants....... And to whatever extent we seek our own will, seek to use God to bring about our will, pander to our self-centered desires, or in any way are afraid or unwilling to surrender wholly to God's will--to that extent we are exalting ourselves to the position of gods, whether we call it that or not.

The teaching is spreading that we don't ask God, but command Him to give us all that is our divine right to possess and enjoy. (Power,healings,tongues,gifts,materialblessings etc.)

Whatever the label on the package, the product inside is the same old satanic ploy:...... "The answer is within ourselves."... We can "do it" if we only learn the "laws" and "principles" that apply and put them into operation by "faith."..... The goal is always to reward self in some way.

Though called by many names, it is still the lie that the Bible prophesies will become the "new truth" upon which Antichrist's kingdom will be built and which will eventually prove to be a foundation of sand.

From this root of delusion the entire tree of sorcery has sprung forth and blossomed, and is now bearing the evil fruit that is so greedily being devoured by this generation.

http://www.thebereancall.org/content/tbc-classic-0

[Quix]

Has it ever appeared to you . . .

that most naysayers seem to live in a very

—narrow
—rigid
—almost totally binary—all black/white world?

They seem to have little awareness of so many continuums in so much of life where there’s an infinite number of points from A to Z.

I guess that makes it easier to jump from

my not inviting folks

to the conclusion that I wanted to actively forbid such in some sort of authoritarian nonsense.

Sheesh what silliness.

Perhaps it’s inconceivable to some folks that I set out to post the truth as I saw it and let the chips fall where they may with whatever responses occurred . . . hopefully without me getting drug very far into the chronic futile go arounds over the same straw dogs always proffered when such topics arise.

Seems like a lot of truths in this ball park just do not compute for such folks.

[caww]

You’re fast becoming not worth responding with that sort of gibberish Quix.....and here you go again...and if I was boatbums I wouldn’t give your post the time of day...your nasty side is out once again.

[Quix]

I’ll take that as a

“No. Does not compute.”

[presently no screen name]

Definitely emotionalism is here! And it started because your cousin was healed.

"Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" And immediately the leprosy left him."

"Then Jesus ordered him, "Don't tell anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them."

Oh, no. Maybe we goofed. LOL!!

[boatbums]

Hey, DOOD, I DON'T read or listen to Copeland because he IS a false prophet - a quick glance at his website as well as the testimony of those here who HAVE followed him and his cohorts is proof enough. Quix happened to post a thread about the wonders of Copeland, so, yes, that sure sounds like an endorsement to me. So far, he has avoided answers about that. Did he assign you that task?

This "very simple solution" you offer just happens to be exactly what SATAN prefers. Imagine that! Do you possibly think God gave us Scripture and commanded us to study to show ourselves approved as workmen and so that we can give answers as well as reproving, rebuking and exhorting, so that we can have something with which to "test the spirit" to see if they are from God?

[caww]

I’ll take that as a....“No. Does not compute.”

Ok Quix...you've just qualified yourself from any further response from me. Until you can respond to the posts in even any , and posters who will dialogue on these important issues than these nonesense games you're playing with posters.

Jesus turned his back on "foolish talking" and went to those who were willing to listen and ask reasonable questions...I will do likewise.

[presently no screen name]

that most naysayers seem to live in a very —narrow —rigid —almost totally binary—all black/white world?

Acting 'worldly' yet criticizing the supernatural with 'that can't be'.

[Quix]

Wellllll

My relative’s wife is not about to give her healing back! LOL.

Have you noticed something else . . .

IIRC, I ***try*** to say MOST things somewhat tentatively unless I KNOW them more or less explicitly because of abundantly clear Scriptural language and/or extremely solid personal experience that God has confirme is of Him.

There’s soooo many Scriptural issues that are arguable. And I TRY and avoid a dogmatic stance on them.

Yet, naysayers chronically sound like they KNOW 1,000% EXACTLY AND PRECISELY WHAT EVERY word and nuance on a Biblical issue means to the nth degree.

Great humility there.

/sarc

[caww]

This thread of Quix’s is going exactly the same ridiculous way the others have....it’s getting chocked full of nonesense responses. I’ll come back later when maybe things are at least of interest.....but thank you for your posts...appreciated.

Really quite amazing there really isn’t anything new under the sun when it especially comes to revealing truth in the face of falsehood....it will always resist, bark, and bite.

[presently no screen name]

Hey, DOOD

Post it to who you are talking to.