Posted on 03/07/2012 10:24:56 AM PST by marshmallow
MINNEAPOLIS (ABP) – An author and preacher popular in Calvinist circles says it is no accident that recent killer tornadoes followed paths that ravaged some communities while others were spared.
“Why would God reach down his hand and drag his fierce fingers across rural America killing at least 38 people with 90 tornadoes in 12 states, and leaving some small towns with scarcely a building standing, including churches?” John Piper of Desiring God ministries wrote in a blog March 5.
Piper, pastor for preaching at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, said it is wrong to ascribe power capable of causing an estimated $2 billion worth of property damage to Mother Nature or the devil.
“God alone has the last say in where and how the wind blows,” Piper said. “If a tornado twists at 175 miles an hour and stays on the ground like a massive lawnmower for 50 miles, God gave the command.”
Piper said he doesn’t know why if God has a quarrel with America that he wouldn’t show his displeasure in Washington or Hollywood instead of places like Henryville, Ind., but that “every deadly wind in any town is a divine warning to every town.”
(Excerpt) Read more at abpnews.com ...
This sounds like a guy who's convinced of his own salvation. The Bible says that Jesus is the Judge, not individual men.
This is a guy who takes very seriously the admonition to "...work out your salvation with fear & trembling".
IOW - Piper is a "leaner". To wit:
"I can do all things THROUGH CHRIST who strengthens me."
"If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides,"
The Bible says that Jesus is the Judge, not individual men.
I think every right-minded person would agree with this - I'm not sure of your point.
Please be careful that you are not more interested in holding onto an opinion - than discovering what is true (hence my tagline 8^)
Most assuredly.
Excellent questions! And of course these tie into the original topic - Tornadoes.
Ultimately, the question boils down to the sovereignty of God.
I could do as you say and lead a "self-serving fun" life. The problem however, is you start from a false premise - that there is a "fun" life apart from God. Obviously, there is pleasure to be had in sex, drugs, drink, money, power - otherwise we wouldn't be drawn to them. But the truth is that the "fun" life-style is an empty construct - it is a lie from the pit. It is a meaningless pursuit that will lead to ruin, despair & isolation.
As I mentioned earlier, CS. Lewis explains it well:
"If we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered to us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased."
So you can see that the question of a "self-serving fun life" is moot.
Or is it? Do you understand how Piper arrived at the phrase "Christian Hedonist"? It is provocative - he knows that - it was meant to be. The knee-jerk reaction to the phrase is to exclaim "hah - see! Piper thinks he can do what he wants 'cause he thinks he's predestined to heaven". And that would be the wrong response.
Piper understood two truths early on in life.
1. Because we recognize the great love with which God loved us in the giving of his Son, everything we do in this life should be done as an outpouring of our gratitude and love for God ("...whatever you do, do it for the glory of God").
2. He wanted to be happy.
You see, it was the above insight from C.S Lewis along with a few other historical individuals, that made him realize that the the above two truths were NOT mutually exclusive. In fact they are complementary.
Consider the parable of the man who found a treasure in a field (the kingdom of God). What was his response? He went and sold EVERYTHING he had so that he could buy the field. That man was a Christian Hedonist! He denied himself EVERYTHING ELSE. He recognized that his happiness was bound to the King and the Kingdom.
Back to the point of God's sovereignty. If we accept that God loves us as his children, and that a good father disciplines his children, so we must accept that God will discipline us - as HE sees fit. If we are HIS, he will not (ultimately) allow us to continue pursuing your "self-serving fun" life. Because he loves us - and for HIS NAMES SAKE, he will show HIMSELF to be preferable - to making mud pies in the slum...
Grace to you
The bottom line is that as fallen creatures, we all seek "religion". That is, by nature we understand our fallen state, and by nature seek to repair it by creating systems through which we acquire sufficient status - "now I feel I am a good person because I do xyz".
The problem of course is that our systems are doomed to failure - unless it is a system that embraces Christ's singular act - the act which pays our price, but only if we accept it through an act of faith - and this faith is not [even] of ourselves - it is a gift.
Is the faith a GIFT - or not? Can a heart that is dead in it's trespasses and sins COME ALIVE on it's own? Or is the hand of God required to quicken the dead heart of stone?
Those who misinterpret ("I'm one of the elect - sucks to be you!") Calvin's tulip are no different than any other "salvation-by-works-alone" sect. They are simply more lost souls seeking to gain salvation - without submitting to the Savior.
I'd keep that to myself if I were you. I'd suspect if you try to defend the Clintons as "Christians" you'll be laughed off this board. It's not as much a judgment call as it is a recognition of a witnessing need.
Am I predetermined to heaven or am I predetermined to hell? How about you?
The scriptures state that your name is written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Now that's a pretty long time ago. So would that make you predetermined?
If you believe in Reformed theology that makes no sense at all. You are either predestined to Heaven or hell and that is that, no matter what you do or do not do.
Please be careful that you are not more interested in holding onto an opinion - than discovering what is true (hence my tagline 8^)
If my opinion is wrong and an earnest individual shows me that, I thank them heartedly.
Ultimately, the question boils down to the sovereignty of God.
I could do as you say and lead a "self-serving fun" life. The problem however, is you start from a false premise - that there is a "fun" life apart from God. Obviously, there is pleasure to be had in sex, drugs, drink, money, power - otherwise we wouldn't be drawn to them. But the truth is that the "fun" life-style is an empty construct - it is a lie from the pit. It is a meaningless pursuit that will lead to ruin, despair & isolation.
There are some people who enjoy themselves immensely with the wealth that they have amassed and live long and prosper leading an opulent and extravagent lifestyle. It may be meaningless to a devout Christian, but you cannot say that will lead to ruin, despair and isolation.
Piper understood two truths early on in life. 1. Because we recognize the great love with which God loved us in the giving of his Son, everything we do in this life should be done as an outpouring of our gratitude and love for God ("...whatever you do, do it for the glory of God"). 2. He wanted to be happy. You see, it was the above insight from C.S Lewis along with a few other historical individuals, that made him realize that the the above two truths were NOT mutually exclusive. In fact they are complementary.
That is Piper's pathway to happiness. Who says that salvation cannot be predestined after other pathways are followed to the exclusion of Piper's pathway?
Back to the point of God's sovereignty. If we accept that God loves us as his children, and that a good father disciplines his children, so we must accept that God will discipline us - as HE sees fit. If we are HIS, he will not (ultimately) allow us to continue pursuing your "self-serving fun" life. Because he loves us - and for HIS NAMES SAKE, he will show HIMSELF to be preferable - to making mud pies in the slum...
Why, why and why? If I am predestined to Heaven, I don't have to accept God at all, right? I still keep coming back to the reasoning behind predestination and find it wanting when I read Scripture. If we are all to be Judged, then predestination to Heaven or hell is meaningless. Unless you consider Judgement to be a sham - a kangaroo court with predestined outcomes. Do we have free will or not? And what is the effect of me utilizing free will on my eternal salvation?
I'd keep that to myself if I were you. I'd suspect if you try to defend the Clintons as "Christians" you'll be laughed off this board. It's not as much a judgment call as it is a recognition of a witnessing need.
It is a widely held belief, seemingly quite justified with constant examples, of course. Yet neither you nor I am qualified to Judge any man to eternal salvation or hellfire.
Am I predetermined to heaven or am I predetermined to hell? How about you?
The scriptures state that your name is written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Now that's a pretty long time ago. So would that make you predetermined?
What is the Book of Life? Is it not written with every human being's name, but those Judged to hellfire eternal are blotted out?
Amen!
I think where you are hung up is that you think that life is about you - what you want or do not want. God exists for HIS glory. We were created for HIS glory.
One of the tulip petals - I - is that the grace of God is Irresistible When he calls you, when you are his, you will find him Irresistibly satisfying.
Do you think this gift would somehow a point of pride? Something about which one puffs up their feathers as if there own doing? No, it is why we should daily fall on our faces before a holy God.
And how do we KNOW we are HIS? Answer: if we persevere to the end. How do we persevere(the tulip 'p')? We acknowledge that we are totally dependent on HIM; that regardless, we will find our life's satisfaction in HIM.
IOW - we work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12). What does this look like? Every day we plead with God to give us our daily bread, to sustain us, to give us the faith to continue believing, to give us the strength to love the unlovable, to live the seeming unlivable. In short, we do the good works he prepared for us to do (Eph 2:10).
Now you could choose NOT to do any good works. You could choose to live the fun life. However, God is not mocked, he will not be thwarted. He will draw His own - in His time - according to His design, Irresitably...
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