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To: Colofornian

That raises a sticky question for all Christians, particularly Catholics. Can you be saved by the act of a third party (other than Christ)?

Words mean things, and among those words are “whosoever believeth in me shall not perish, but have everlasting life”*. An individual being baptized as an infant, or another being baptized after death has not believed, so is not promised life. The Catholic liturgy includes professing belief in “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”, yet Christ was baptized even though he was sinless.

Since Adolf Hitler was baptized, does that mean we’ll be seeing him in Heaven? Provided, that is, that we have accepted Christ’s sacrifice and are saved, or have been baptized as well?

In short, baptizing someone who is already dead, while a loving gesture, is of no effect.

*From memory, and the words may vary by version.


5 posted on 02/15/2012 6:34:24 AM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: JimRed
Words mean things, and among those words are “whosoever believeth in me shall not perish, but have everlasting life”*. An individual being baptized as an infant, or another being baptized after death has not believed, so is not promised life. The Catholic liturgy includes professing belief in “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”...

(Not Catholic)...but The Catholic liturgy derives this DIRECT from the New Testament (Acts 2): 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

...among those words are “whosoever believeth in me shall not perish, but have everlasting life”*. An individual being baptized as an infant, or another being baptized after death has not believed, so is not promised life.

Well you cited Mark 16:16 -- but only half of it: 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Note that Mark 16:16 DOES NOT say: "Whoever does not believe AND IS NOT BAPTIZED will be condemned."

So, obviously lack of baptism itself doesn't necessarily condemn. Still...you said, an individual baptized as an infant doesn't believe [I assume you meant doesn't necessarily believe]

Have you ever thought about when Jewish babies were considered part of the covenant people of God? Answer? At 8 days when they were circumcized.

Per "the Bible, baptism (somewhat like Old Testament circumcision, administered to 8-day-old-babies--see Col. 2:11-12) is God's gracious way of washing away our sins--even the sins of infants--without any help or cooperation on our part. It is a wonderful gift of a loving and gracious God.” (Source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2330620/posts?q=1&;page=51 [post #38])

Colossians 2:11-12: In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

No corpse can bury itself. That is a 100% passive posture. Likewise, baptism in the Name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit isn't an act of man, it's an act of God exercised thru man.

Otherwise, we wouldn't have the passages we do on baptism (Acts 2:38-39; Col. 2:11-12; romans 6:1-4; the passage by Peter...)

11 posted on 02/15/2012 7:22:06 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: JimRed

Can you be saved by the act of a third party (other than Christ)?

No. This seems to be a fight between Wiesel, who’s offended by something that just doesn’t matter and doesn’t affect his parents in the least, and the Mormons, whose presumptuous third-party baptisms are spiritual arrogance.


14 posted on 02/15/2012 7:42:58 AM PST by jagusafr ("Write in Palin and prepare for war...")
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