Posted on 02/05/2012 2:58:27 PM PST by marshmallow
Fidel Castro will be received back into the communion of the Roman Catholic Church during Pope Benedict XVI’s visit to the island in March, the Italian press is reporting. If true, this is a remarkable story — and one that has yet to catch the attention of editors this side of the Atlantic.
On 1 Feb 2012, La Republicca — [Italy’s second largest circulation daily newspaper, La Republicca follows a center-left political line and is strongly anti-clerical; not anti-Catholic per se but a critic of the institutional church] — reported that as death approaches, the octogenarian communist has turned to God for solace.
ABC’s Global Note news blog is the only U.S. general interest publication I have found that has reported this story. It referenced the La Republicca story and said that Castro’s
daughter Alina is quoted as saying “During this last period, Fidel has come closer to religion: he has rediscovered Jesus at the end of his life. It doesn’t surprise me because dad was raised by Jesuits.” The article quotes an unidentified high prelate in the Vatican who is working on the Pope’s Cuba trip: “Fidel is at the end of his strength. Nearly at the end of his life. His exhortations in the party paper Granma, are increasingly less frequent. We know that in this last period he has come closer to religion and God.”
Some Italian websites have even speculated as to when Fidel will make his confession and credo — setting the date as 27 March 2012 at 17:30 when the two ottantacinquenni, Pope Benedict XVI and Castro, will meet at the Palacio de la Revolución when the pope makes his official visit to the head of state, Raul Castro.
During Pope John Paul II’s 1998 visit to Cuba, Castro attended mass, but did...........
(Excerpt) Read more at geoconger.wordpress.com ...
Non-responsive, dodging the question - again.
Read carefully, I said: "No more than sitting by a stereo playing a recording..."The purely physical event of sound waves striking the ear drum.
Remember I analogizing with the pure physical/material act of partaking Holy Communion in response to your question. That's the context and parallel.
I have been studying church history for only a few weeks, so far I know of the Waldensians, beginning around AD 1000.
Your persistence in this history question is a bullying tactic.
The overwhelmiing ediface of the Roman Catholic Church may fill you with pride, but the church houses of the NT likely continued with Devine blessing, but without many earthly manifestations.
ediface=edifice
I’m very happy to hear of your study.
I’m not bullying, look at the attacks I’m responding to. My point *is* to study the history of the Christian Church.
Those I’m “bullying” acknowledge no church, no visible church, no history. This is a very small subset. And they attack Church and Church history from a position of no church and no history. I hope you see the point here.
Without some grounding in the facts, without acknowledging the shared and unshared history, discussion becomes pretty, well, lame and uninformed.
thanks for your reply.
the church houses of the NT likely continued with Devine blessing, but without many earthly manifestations.
Keep studying! Preferably from objective sources and historians...
That's exactly right Bellflower. The scriptures are the ultimate authority and should teaching oppose what's written then the only option some have is to twist the scriptures to support their position..which is often taken out of context as well.
That's why there's so many cults using scripture....it works to confuse and confound people who are unfamiliar with scripture.....they can slip in false teaching quite easily because people are ignorant of what the scriptures say. Unfortunately many look to their leadership to tell them what scripture says and thus continue to be misled and miss the high calling of God which is in Christ Jesus.
That's exactly right Bellflower. The scriptures are the ultimate authority and should teaching oppose what's written then the only option some have is to twist the scriptures to support their position..which is often taken out of context as well.
That's why there's so many cults using scripture....it works to confuse and confound people who are unfamiliar with scripture.....they can slip in false teaching quite easily because people are ignorant of what the scriptures say. Unfortunately many look to their leadership to tell them what scripture says and thus continue to be misled and miss the high calling of God which is in Christ Jesus.
If I stipulate that there is no history of my church prior to 2007 when it began, what then is your point?
Are you saying without a documented chain of authority that my salvation, worship, and prayer is not recognised by God?
Is that not the Trentian opinion?
Those who are in the true church do not need to point to history, venerate their earthly “church fathers” and build grand edifices and monuments in honor of them, or keep track of “church history” because we store up our treasures in heaven and not here on earth. Christ knows His own and they know His voice. We are a "royal priesthood" and Christ is our only High Priest. Not earthly imposter needed.
I think that is likely not the case, there is some history on which it built.
More to the point, you *have* an actual church. The discussion here is different. I think it would take some thread retracing to understand...
ah, it is out of modesty that you have no church history? How about one humble piece of history? Did the billions you claimed earlier disappear without a trace?
Your position is again absurd. Not worth discussing.
Most people define the first church as the congregation that was gathered on Pentecost, so that would make Acts the first book in the Bible to mention the Christian church.
Further....Jesus said that "upon this rock (referring to himself) I will build my Church." The word Church has became to mean a group of people, or congregation.
That would be my church...wherever Christians might meet. Be it in a building, in someones home, or wherever they come together. Generally to worship...study the scriptures...share communion...or even gather for a meal...I will gather with them and therefore among the "Church".
Your church sounds like mine Cynical Bear.
I’m off for a while, so I won’t be responding again, no offense intended.
If you are studying history and can discuss Trent and Church authority, that’s an order of magnitude above where the discussion you entered is treading.
Any discussion of the Holy Eucharist, the Sacraments, the Trinitarian formula, the larger issue of reason and faith, ecclesiology, etc… is quite futile without some context and history; the arguments are not new, where we are is not divorced from where we were.
Christianity and the Christian faith is not an individual with the NT completely without history, without connection, completely on their own to decide what is scripture, what is exegesis, what is dogma, what is doctrine, what is... everything: alone, by themselves for the “church.” A church of one, me.
It’s a useless argument that denies reality, and really there’s only three or four on the four that try to make it.
It’s not worth the time.
Thanks for your replies and perhaps we can have a discussion again soon.
typo:
only three or four on the *forum*...
One and the same caww as it is with all true believers.
You're exactly right.....Having a pedigree of apostolic succession or being able to trace a church's roots back to the "first church" is nowhere in Scripture given as 'a test' for being the true church.....
....Rather, what is given is 'repeated comparisons between what false teachers teach and what the first church taught', as recorded in Scripture...... Whether a church is the "true church" or not is determined by comparing its teachings and practices to that of the New Testament church, as recorded in Scripture.
Nowhere in the New Testament will you find the “one true church” doing any of the following: * praying to Mary,... praying to the saints,... venerating Mary, submitting to a pope,... having a select priesthood,... baptizing an infant,... observing the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments,... or passing on apostolic authority to successors of the apostles......
....All of these are core elements of the Roman Catholic faith. If most of the core elements of the Roman Catholic Church were not practiced 'by the New Testament Church' (the first church and one true church), how then can the Roman Catholic Church be the first church?
When one does a study of the New Testament church it will clearly reveal that the Roman Catholic Church is NOT the same church as the church that is described in the New Testament.....nor is it based on Historic Christianity. Instead it has deviated from the the finished work of Christ and compromised on His person.
Why can’t Catholics get the truth that the “connection” is Christ. The “history” is contained in the invisible church that consists of all true believers throughout history that may meet in a home or may attend one of the many organized “churches” in existence today. It’s not “a church of one” but a Christ centric church made up of those who He knows and who know His voice who may be sitting in a pew next to a hell bound hypocrite who can recite every dogma, doctrine and creed known to man.
Because maybe some of them don't really know Him...they only know what they're taught..they disguise its pagan beliefs under 'layers of complicated theology' that would take a lifetime to unravel.....further excuses and denies its pagan origin beneath the mask of “church tradition.”..and they are quick to bring those traditions as "Gospel" truth.
Many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, therefore the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.
Without the authority of the scriptures...which the early church adhered to....then they leave themselves open to all kinds of false doctrines and teachings, which is exactly what they did centuries ago, and do to this day.
Only the Lord can remove their stubborn and blinded minds and hearts....and they have to want to know the truth as it really is....many do not and are perfectly satisfied to go thru all the rituals and such in order to "feel" as secure as they possible can...but they never know the security of their salvation...to do so is taught as a sin in their church...so they are trapped.
Which is one of the signs of and goals of a cult.
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