Posted on 02/04/2012 2:26:35 PM PST by NYer
Jesus way is clear and understandable, like the US Constitution. To me, the catholic church explanations always bring to mind the US Tax code.
Jesus way is clear and understandable, like the US Constitution. To me, the catholic church explanations always bring to mind the US Tax code.
I have great respect for our Eastern Orthodox brothers Many giants of early Church theology were of course from the East. So many greats and classic works such as the Paschal Sermon of St. John Chrysostom. I just finished a brief summary of the differences between mystics and monasticism in the East and West. Very interesting, like different personalities with one body. Two lungs, same body, I think is a great way to express it.
Thanks...
You wrote:
“You can kid yourself all night if you want ~ they tossed his parts into the fields for wild dogs to eat.”
So what?
A good way to look at it. Really all the differences mostly revolve around which human is ‘in charge’. But protestant, catholic, and orthodox all have salvation available.
You wrote:
“Jesus way is clear and understandable, like the US Constitution.”
So we don’t need a Supreme Court, right?
Thanks for your reply.
Theology aside, there is a consistency, dignity and history to the Catholic Church.
The Ecumenical Councils, the Nicene Creed, the Chalcedon definition... the fundamentals of the small ‘o’ orthodox Christian Faith.
“James Likoudis has written three books dealing with Eastern Orthodoxy. Still available is his book, The Divine Primacy of the Bishop of Rome, and, Modern Eastern Orthodoxy: Letters to a Greek Orthodox on the Unity of the Church.”
I think you missed the argument hidden, in plain sight, in my point. I do not take seriously, and I don’t think Christians should take seriously, EITHER SIDE of the issue.
I wish the caucus designation was respected.
Although most Orthodox posters seem to have left this site, I was still hoping for an interesting discussion.
It seems unlikely that there will be one now.
Not in the form we have today. And just as the USSC grabbed authority they were not given in the constitution,, the roman church has also done so in the christian world. The point is, catholics are saved and belong to jesus. But they are never his sole representative on earth,, thats all.
For example, the inquisition you so admire. The records state that 3 to 5k were murdered for heresy. (depending how you count) Yes, yes,, we know that was the civil authorities (wink wink,, nudge nudge) But torture, theft, and murder done in jesus name is insane. Those SOBs were satanic.
But also, blaming the modern church for what those guys did makes as much sense as blaming todays Porsche for building tanks for nazis.
The original story made derisive comments about protestants. So therefore,, protestants might decide to comment.
I forgot about the brief mentions of Protestants.
It sucks how it voids the caucus label, since it is not a key part of the article.
As the advertisement goes “Don’t be buried in unconsecrated ground” ~ that “so what”.
Not sure they “grabbed” anything. Even the Orthodox recognize the bishop of Rome as Patriarch of the West. All of Britain, Most of Europe west of Russia, was converted by missionaries loyal to Rome. Ditto most of Latin America. Beginning with the Reformation, the rulers of many of these countries seized control of the church and its properties.The Roman emperors based in Constantinople, exercised similar control over the Church from Constantine onwards. The final collapse of the Empire in 1453 left the eastern Church under the rule of the Turkish Sultan. Efforts by Latins to extent papal authority to the Greeks was resisted. After the fall of Constantinople, Russia became the main Orthodox power with its emperor -Tsar—as head of the Church.
Not sure they “grabbed” anything. Even the Orthodox recognize the bishop of Rome as Patriarch of the West. All of Britain, Most of Europe west of Russia, was converted by missionaries loyal to Rome. Ditto most of Latin America. Beginning with the Reformation, the rulers of many of these countries seized control of the church and its properties.The Roman emperors based in Constantinople, exercised similar control over the Church from Constantine onwards. The final collapse of the Empire in 1453 left the eastern Church under the rule of the Turkish Sultan. Efforts by Latins to extent papal authority to the Greeks was resisted. After the fall of Constantinople, Russia became the main Orthodox power with its emperor -Tsar—as head of the Church.
You wrote:
“As the advertisement goes “Don’t be buried in unconsecrated ground” ~ that “so what”.”
No, it’s still “so what?” because what you just posted proves nothing.
“The Carvajal family in Spain had it’s most immediate origins in Brittany.”
Irrelevant.
“Many of their members went to Spain to serve in the Reconquista.”
Irrelevant.
“Apparently a number of them did quite well.”
Irrelevant.
“Toward the last quarter of the 16th century the Protestant Reformation in Brittany (which was not entirely at one with the Reformation in France) settled down without a clear cut victory in the nobility except in the rural areas where nobles actually made a living by running very large plantations dedicated to luxury products.”
Irrelevant.
“The Bretons ended up mostly Roman Catholic ~ in so far as the peasants and nobles in the cities were concerned,leaving only disaffected and politically isolated Protestant nobles in the countryside.”
Irrelevant.
“Not unaccountably the several great magnate families centered on the Carvajal nobles began agitating for a separation of Britanny, except for the Nantes area, to the Hapsburgs ~ to wit, Philip I/II of Spain.”
Irrelevant.
“Currently I’m trying to figure out what their political relationship to Philip was. He didn’t get that sort of respect out of the Catholic nobles in Brittany and maybe he thought they’d return to the church.”
Irrelevant.
“Your reference to Cardinal Carvajal in the mix with a commoner is startling ~ but it does reveal you don’t know these people. By the early 1600s the Breton Protestant nobility, again centered on the Carvajal family, had relocated in substantial strength to the Swedish Empire. It was an easy jump from there to America. A few lines remain in Eastern Europe.”
Irrelevant.
“Someday you might take a look at the authors of the Catholic encyclopedia.”
I bet I know it better than you do. Nothing you posted proves any of your claims - once again. You repeatedly fail to prove your assertions. Why?
You wrote:
“And just as the USSC grabbed authority they were not given in the constitution,, the roman church has also done so in the christian world.”
Nope. Christ gave the Catholic Church its authority.
“The point is, catholics are saved and belong to jesus. But they are never his sole representative on earth,, thats all.”
The point is Christ founded one Church - and that’s the Catholic Church.
“For example, the inquisition you so admire. The records state that 3 to 5k were murdered for heresy.”
They were not murdered. They were tried and exceuted for crimes.
“(depending how you count) Yes, yes,, we know that was the civil authorities (wink wink,, nudge nudge) But torture, theft, and murder done in jesus name is insane. Those SOBs were satanic.”
Nope. Torture was common in Western society until recently. Confiscation of criminals’ property is not theft. And executions were not murders.
A supreme court is necessary, and this is what was instituted in Scripture, but the real issue is infallibly defined assured infallibility, esp with assurance of the nature of a pronouncement being by conformity with an infallibly defined scope and subject based formula.
But this and unity has been the subject of many an open forum, even recently, as here (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2834651/posts?page=1167#1167 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2841954/posts?page=122#122) and will be (just wait a bit) and contention is not sppsd to be part of caucus threads.
The caucus label will be removed because the article mentions Protestant beliefs and therefore the Protestants have an interest in speaking for themselves.
“the ‘two lungs’ of the Catholic Church”
Just heard this same term not long ago from John Michael Talbot at a local Catholic church. He was explaining the origin and meaning of the so-called Jesus prayer, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner,” which he said was from the traditions of the Eastern Church, and explicitly citing John Paul 2 in urging everyone to breathe thus from both lungs. Then he encouraged everyone to become active participants in what he called the new monasticism.
I have seldom heard a more convoluted and confusing talk (2 hours!) about Christianity in my life.
Regarding JMT himself, great voice, wonderful guitar, but horribly muddled and confusing theology.
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