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Posted on 01/14/2012 8:23:15 PM PST by bibletruth
In the present dispensation there is only ONE true Church, which is called the Body of Christ separate and distinct from the prophesied, earthly kingdom of Christ vested in redeemed National Israel as a called-out nation or church, assembly or congregation, above all other nations.
Man screws it up every time. So sad that so many have turned to man for interpretation instead of the word itself.
Which you and I may not bring up in the report does not mean it did not happen. You and I may have forgot or it did not have to be brought up.
Sometimes we are taking a piecemeal of a writing to declare something definite where it is not what it was originally stated from the subject context. What is the true purpose of the whole writing. If the main point is titled the successors of Peter and Peter is not declared. Yes strange not to put Peter. But if the argument is not to exactly clarified that fact it is not an absolute that Irenaeus agrees. He did say Apostles ,which Peter was foremost. Suppose he is talking about how the figured out a problem and Peter either has last say or has given delegated authority with the apostles statement. The writing is not clear cut that Peter is not the First Pope either. It just is not stated.
Amen.
Amen!!
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Only lost sinners, saved by God's Grace will be in heaven.
2Ti 4:21 Do thy diligence to come before winter. Eubulus greeteth thee, and Pudens, and Linus, and Claudia, and all the brethren.
I found your guy Linus, but no “office of the episcopate”. So you are telling us the 12 Apostles handed over the keys of the kingdom of heaven to this obscure person mentioned only once in the Bible to be the second Bishop of Rome? Really? Linus & Lucy and Charlie Brown are having a good laugh! I know I am!
I have read all comments. None addressed this particular declaration. NOT even the Scriptures quoted.
I cannot help but wonder what exactly is the object of worship on these threads. Actually, in Revelation, John taken in Spirit to the Lord's DAY describes 7 different churches in existence and their 'spiritual' condition.
Christ said in Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Imagine that, before one jot or tittle of the NEW Testament ever got put on animal skins, or plant fibers, all things had already been foretold. Sadly the majority of 'modern' Christians ignore what Paul had to say about what had already happened and written. ICorinthians 10:11 Now *all* these things happened unto them for ensamples: (examples) and they are written for our admonition, (warning) upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
Paul's writings were to the 'elect', the House of Israel, House of Judah, and the Gentiles. Some of what Paul wrote goes right over so many heads. One specific example would be Ephesians 1:4---
You bet pride is a sin. Gets you kicked right out of heaven and has you take another 1/3 with you...
Exactly.
Amen! Markos! A humble and contrite heart he will not ignore! Thank God for his Grace!!
Could you tell me where I can find the “real” version of the Bible. I’d be very interested in reading it.
If that is so, then why does it seem that the messages Jesus gave us through the Bible don’t look like they have much to do with the practises of the Catholic church. Rosaries, praying to saints, hails to Mary and calling her Queen of Heaven, Statues of Jesus still on the cross, prayers that sound like chants, calling the high priest Holy Father, saying that he is infallible, vows of silence, the “eucharist”, etc. I don’t have anything against the Catholic church, as I find they do good works just like other religions, though maybe them more so because they get more money in their coffers than other religions seem to. And I know there are true Christians in just about every Christian denomination. I’m truly wondering where they get some fo their rituals and beliefs that’s all.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
I think there’s a verse towards the end of the New Testament maybe that states we are not to call any religious figure “Father” because we have only one Father and that is God in heaven.
Why did not Jesus himself bestow praise upon Mary, his Mother? Instead when she and his brothers came looking for him Jesus basically brushes them off. He does not appear to hold her any more esteemed than a normal son would of his mom. I agree that she is a special human being in history but I just don’t see much about her in all the Bible. All the focus is on God, Jesus and his disciples. Surely if Mary were supposed to be prayed to (talking to her in heaven)and held in such high esteem and fitted with special names and seen in apparitions, etc. God would have made that abundantly clear for us in the scriptures? How can she be called co-redemtrix when not once in all of scripture are we instructed to call her, or view her as such?
LOL, brushes her off? What were Our Lord’s last instructions to an Apostle?
But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. (Jn. 19:25–27)
Cynical bear writes: (SOURCE: Iraeneus Against Heresies, Volume I, Book III, Para 3)
THIS FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS WRONG! YOU SHOULD READ MORE OF THIS IRAENEOUS.
"Did you notice that it was Paul who made mention of Linus, not Peter? With no indication of Peter ever being in Rome nor any indication that Peter in fact was the head of the Apostles there can be no legitimate claim that Peter was the first Pope or that the RC was built on Peter."
SINCE YOU LIKE TO QUOTE IRAENENOUS TO TRY TO PROVE SOMETHING. HERE HE STATES PETER IN ROME.
Here is Iraeneus on Peter and Paul together in Rome.
AGAINST HERESIES BOOK 3 Chapter 3 "Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also means of the successions of the bishops...
HE EVEN KNEW POLYCARP. But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true...Read More[Read More]
Adversus Haereses (Book III, Chapter 1)
Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul Were Preaching AT Rome, and Laying the Foundations of the Church...Read More[Read More]
Adversus Haereses (Book III, Chapter 3) Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also means of the successions of the bishops...Read More[Read More]
Adversus Haereses (Book III, Chapter 10) Wherefore also Mark, the interpreter and follower of Peter, does thus commence his Gospel narrative: "The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; as it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send My messenger before Thy face, which shall prepare Thy way...
Misunderstandings about Jesus “rebuking” Mary
Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - when Jesus asks, “Who are my mother, and sisters and brothers?,” some Protestants argue that Jesus is rebuking Mary in order to denigrate her. To the contrary, when Jesus’ comments are read in light of Luke 8:5-15 and the parable of the sower which Jesus taught right before His question, Jesus is actually implying that Mary has already received the word as the sower of good ground and is bearing fruit. Jesus is teaching that others must, like Mary, also receive the word and obey it.
Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - Jesus’ question about “who are my mother, and sisters and brothers” was also made in reference to Psalm 69:8-9. Jesus the Prophet was answering the psalmist’s prophecy that those closest to Him would betray Him at His passion. Jesus is emphasizing the spiritual family’s importance over the biological family, and the importance of being faithful to Him. While many were unfaithful to Jesus, Mary remained faithful to Him, even to the point of standing at the foot of the Cross.
Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - finally, to argue that Jesus rebuked Mary is to argue that Jesus violated the Torah, here, the 4th commandment. This argument is blasphemous because it essentially says that God committed sin by dishonoring His Mother.
Luke 11:28 - when Jesus says, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it,” some Protestants also call this a rebuke of Mary. Again, to the contrary, Jesus is exalting Mary by emphasizing her obedience to God’s word as being more critical than her biological role of mother. This affirms Luke 1:48.
Luke 11:28 - also, the Greek word for “rather” is “menounge.” Menounge really means “Yes, but in addition,” or “Further.” Thus, Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary’s example in order to build up His kingdom.
Luke 11:27-28 - finally, Jesus is the one being complimented, not Mary. Therefore, Jesus is refocusing the attention from Him to others who obey the word of God. If He is refocusing the attention away from Him to others, His comment cannot be a rebuke of Mary His mother.
John 2:4 - this is another example that Protestants use to diminish Mary’s significance. Jesus’ question to Mary, “what have you to do with me?” does no such thing. To the contrary, Jesus’ question illustrates the importance of Mary’s role in the kingdom. Jesus’ question is in reality an invitation to His mother to intercede on behalf of all believers and begin His ministry, and His Mother understands this. Mary thus immediately intercedes, Jesus obeys her, and performs the miracle which commenced His ministry of redemption.
Luke 8:28 - the demons tell Jesus the same thing, “what have you to do with us.” The demons are not rebuking Jesus, for God would not allow it. Instead, the demons are acknowledging the power of Jesus by their question to Him.
John 2:4; 19:26 - when Jesus uses the title “woman” (gnyai), it is a title of dignity and respect. It is the equivalent of Lady or Madam. Jesus honored His Mother as God requires us to do.
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