Posted on 01/07/2012 6:00:19 PM PST by rzman21
Back trying to start a fight again eh
Great post, A lot to read but will do!
Brevity is the soul of wit.
Yep, there’s variety, but most of it is in regard to the peripherals.
You think a monolith in teaching is good? See how much trouble Rome has brought us with that thinking.
Truth is objective and singular. It’s not subjective and relative.
The author is Eastern Orthodox and not a Roman Catholic.
Catholics and Orthodox agree about far more in spite of 1,000 years of separation than Lutherans and Baptists do.
It’s called having a dialog. Perhaps, Protestants should do more listening and less fighting.
Besides, this is an ecumenical thread, so fighting is not allowed.
Protestant churches agree on fundamentals more than Catholics and Orthodox understand.
>>I have read many of the creedal statements of the major Protestant denominations. Are you referring to the confessions of faith or to their use of the ancient creeds like the Nicene, Apostles’, or Athanasian Creeds.
If you are referring to the confessions of faith like the Augsburg or Westminster confessions, they are all over the map.
Now, carrying the biological metaphor one step further, epigenetics tells us we can take that set of genes and short circuit some, duplicate others, delete yet others and lo and behold we end up with entirely new functions and processes that still contribute mightily to the existence and success of the organism.
Alas, it's relatively new science ~ maybe 5 years old ~ maybe less ~ but it knocks the stuffings out of all the DNA metaphors!
God in His infinite wisdom knows what He's doing!
You just don't know about them. You should study up on this.
...there are Protestant Churches that have MORE in common with the Orthodox than do the Roman Catholics.Really? Apostolic Succession, the Seven Sacraments?
tl;dr but I’ll respond to the criticisms - since there are criticisms.
Southern Baptists (not to be confused with the SBC) keep it simple. Book says don’t add... we didn’t add. Book says don’t take away... we didn’t take away.
That ^ answers every criticism you can throw at Baptists and most protestants in general while simultaneously containing a criticism of nearly every aspect of Catholicism.
Have a nice day.
there are Protestant Churches that have MORE in common with the Orthodox than do the Roman Catholics.
>>Perhaps this is true of some in Lutheranism or remnants of orthodox Anglicanism. But Protestantism is built on the same Augustinian and Scholastic foundation as Latin Catholicism.
I know enough about Protestant and Eastern Orthodoxy to know that the two are miles apart as the author of this article makes plain.
Orthodox soteriology and sacramental teachings are closer to Rome’s than to Evangelicalism’s.
I’d say it’s a bit of a stretch to say that Protestantism in general is closer to Orthodoxy than to Latin Catholicism.
Evangelicalism would have just as many problems with the Orthodox beliefs about the prayers for the dead, prayers to the saints, iconography, Tradition as taught among the Orthodox as they do with Roman Catholic teaching.
But I’d concede that its approach to Mariology is far more Christological than Latin Catholicism. Perhaps this is why I as a former Lutheran have gravitated toward Byzantine Christianity more than to Latin Scholasticism.
Things that are of concern only to the hierarchy are administrative in nature.
The core of the argument doesn’t run to sola scriptura but rather to the split between liberalism and evangelicals— which is something different. But but the author can’t seem to get himself to say that the core of the problem created by liberalism’s higher criticism is that liberalism —in effect — embraced the arian heresy. that is a low view of christ. that is, that Jesus is just a man.
higher criticism took over the divinity schools in europe in the 1850’s at about the same time that atheism took over the philosphy departments there. The higher criticism school made the jump back over the atlantic about the end of the 19th century to american liberal divinity schools and by 1940’s had taken over all the liberal protestant divinity schools.
The premises of the higher criticism school is not sola scriptura but rather a notion passed from the greek tradition by descartes that man is the measure of all things—including God. You can see it in his tree of knowledge that starts with (greek)metaphisics as the root, with philosophy as the trunk and religion/witchcraft in the branches. The higher criticism school treated the bible as a myth like greek or norse myths. (The problem here is that theology is on a whole different root and tree than philosphy. Why? Because theology begins with the premise that God is the measure of all things. And two, God is outside of Man and outside of nature.)
If the problem were with sola scriptura then the problems posed by the Greek philosophy would be limited to the liberal protestant churches where membership is naturally on the fast track to extinction. (Why? Because you have a freaking creepy human sacrifice as the main mystery at the alter.)
Again, the author conflates two different points. One is differences in interpretations of the bible and the other is collapsing membership. The two are not related. If collapsing membership was caused by sola scriptura then the problems posed by the Greek philosophy —that is the collapse of their membership—would be limited to the liberal protestant churches—. However, its not. The catholic church membership as well in steep decline —especially in south america and Europe.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,805075,00.html
And much of the reason for this can be laid at the feet of the arian heresy. More than one pope in recent decades has railed against the arian heresy which is passed through liberal catholic seminaries and bishops.
fwiw the USA & latin american evangelical and charismatic churchs are all increasing their membership. there are different interpretations of the bible for example differences between arminians and calvinists. but they are all considered to be within the pale of orthodoxy as are the catholic church and the eastern orthodox church.
however, the arian churches are not within the pale of orthodoxy. this stuff can get really grievous too. three or four generations after the liberal protestant churches embraced higher criticism and the low view of christ—their denominations embraced homosexuality in the priesthood. Among catholics, you can bet that seminaries where the young novices were hit on — also took soto voce the low view of christ.
When it comes to matters that are non-dogmatic such as corruption in the hierarchy, believe me I am every bit as critical of the Roman Catholic hierarchy as the next person.
But when it comes to basic matters of Christian dogma, Protestantism left the boat 500 years ago..
We have no particular reason to reject that form of prayer.
Things that are of concern only to the hierarchy are administrative in nature.
>>Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy view the episcopate as being a matter of Church dogma dating back to the beginnings.
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