Oh YEah??
Just LOOK at what I found on ELSIE's bookshelf!
--MormonDuqe(I think was only a local thingy thought...)
Posted on 12/29/2011 5:57:15 PM PST by Colofornian
"Graduation" ceremonies in Mormonism seem so unfair.
I mean...look @ Mormon teachings (D&C, etc.) on how they say John the Apostle and the alleged Nephite disciples never died...How they are supposedly still wandering the earth after over 2,000 years.
When do they get to "graduate" and move up the eternal progression ladder?
Mormons...do you realize the full implication of the Mormon Holy Ghost not having a body?
One of the most well-thought of "intellectuals" within Mormondom's leadership was Lds "apostle" James Talmage. He wrote a book called "The Articles of Faith" (which I have). Here's what Talmage wrote on p. 48:
"We affirm that to deny the materiality of God's person is to deny God; for a thing without parts has no whole, and an immaterial body cannot exist. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims against the incomprehensible God, devoid of 'body, parts, or passions,' as a thing impossible of existence..." (Source: The Articles of Faith, p. 48 James Talmage published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1987)
There it is. Published by the Mormon church. 1987. It labeled the Holy Spirit as a "thing" who can't possibly exist! Talmage says "an immaterial body cannot exist."
You didn't know this secret teaching of Mormonism, did you Reaganaut?
Of course, I don't know which exact secret teaching they're embracing here: Is it that the Holy Ghost doesn't really exist...per secret Mormon teachings?
Or, is it that the Mormons now secretly teach that the Holy Ghost has a body, after all???
Inquiring minds wanna know.
Yup; them MORMONs sure do elect them CONSERVATIVES all right!
I qualify under that "no worthy anyones" category!
I am unworthy for salvation.
I am unworthy to be in heaven.
I am unworthy to live forever with the Triple-unified God.
Yet...in Christ, my ever-Living Substitute righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30), I qualify!
His justification is imputed to me. I am no more worthily alive of my own "spirituality" than Lazarus was alive in that grave before Christ called him out.
Christ calls.
The Holy Spirit enables me to respond (1 Cor. 12:3). I believe.
I trust Jesus. My Ever-Living Savior. My Reconciler. My Atoning Substitute. I know Him; He knows me.
And the worthiness I now have is 100% IN CHRIST. I was "worthy" at that cross only in that I was "worth" dying for. He found me and every one of enough "worth" to die for 33 years after being born as the everliving God-Man.
My worth is fully displayed on that cross, where he saw Colofornian -- the spiritual prisoner -- and died for me. I caused him to go to that cross. It was me. My sins. My failures. My lack of glorifying God. I'm responsible. I am guilty. Yet, in CHRIST, I am acquitted. Christ took my rap.
I am free! Liberated from any ritual of religion...yet fully bound as one related to Christ. I am an adopted child of God!
No adopted child rings up "brownie points" on some "adoptability" chart. In the most ideal world, children are adopted because of the loving kindness and mercy and relational agape love on the part of their would-be parents.
While I freely acknowledge the heartfelt passion shown by this statement; I can only disappoint thee by humbly turning down this wonderful chance to further represent you.
As you know; I have no computer of my own (I think the last two died from nearby sulfurous Viking Kitty strikes) and I am reduced to using Elsie's when he (she/it - who knows?) is away for a few minutes; thus the short, but pithy, responses from me.
Sadly; I must remain ever vigilent to being able to post to the vast cloud of LURKERS on FR, from a MORMON viewpoint, when I can.
--MormonDude(Perhaps if Mitt wins...)
Wait!!
This is an AWARD and not something that'll actually take up my valuable time???
--MormonDupe(Thinking about it now!)
(Well, I've heard they actually import those from a a planet in the same galaxy where Superman came from...You see, they undergo industry-wide "testings" there to see if they can withstand the kryptonite...if they pass...they get shipped on to Planet Earth...All those UFOs we see?...just magic garmies' delivery "trucks" droppin' off the latest shipment)
As a Mormon, I probably would have said something like, “Well Heavenly Father KNEW that the Holy Ghost would keep his second estate (earthly life for those in Rio Linda) and earn his exaltation, so it isn’t that he doesn’t have a body, he just hasn’t gotten it yet, but he will someday”. (add blank stare, fake smile and sing song voice).
*Shudder*
That poor angel. He was Nephi. Did you know?
He had no name until 1835. In his lifetime, Joseph Smith, Jr. always used the name "Nephi" for the angel with one exception. In the Elder's Journal of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, vol 1, no 3., p 42 (Jul, 1838), he refers to the angel as "Moroni." That's it. If any scholar is aware of any other contemporaneous use by Smith of Moroni during his lifetime, I'd like to know. Joseph Smith, Jr. always used "Nephi," with that one exception.
According to Times and Seasons Vol. III pp. 749, 753, which Joseph Smith, Jr. edited:
"When I first looked upon him I was afraid, but the fear soon left me. He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi. That God has a work for me to do, ... He said there was a book deposited written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang."
The digital version of TImes and Seasons has been changed by the LDS Church to read "Moroni" instead of "Nephi." The original printed version edited by Joseph Smith, Jr., is still "Nephi."
The August, 1842, edition of the LDS publication, Millennial Star, printed in England, also published Joseph Smith's story and stated that the angel's name was "Nephi" (see Millennial Star, vol. 3, p.53). On page 71 of the same volume it states that the "...message of the angel Nephi ... opened a new dispensation to man...."
In the 1853 LDS Biographical Sketch (p. 79) of Lucy Mack Smith, the mother of Joseph Smith, Jr., she states that the name of the angel who appeared to Joseph Smith was Nephi.
In both Joseph Smith's handwritten copy of The Pearl of Great Price and the 1851 edition of the same book (page 41) it states:
"He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."
A doctoral candidate at Brigham Young University named Walter L. Whipple wrote a thesis titled "Textual Changes in the Pearl of Great Price." In it he notes that Orson Pratt changed the name from Nephi to Moroni in 1878. Fairlds.org acknowledges that changes were made to the Pearl of Great Price but leaves a stub link to discuss them eventually. Yes, one of those common fairlds.org stub links.
The 1853 edition of Lucy Mack Smith's "Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet and His Progenitors of [for] Many Generations," which refers to the Angel Nephi, was banned by Brigham Young and burned and destroyed, according to the LDS newspaper, The Deseret News, June 21, 1865. It was later republished with the name of Nephi changed to Moroni, among other changes.
"Moroni" was used by Oliver Cowdry once when Smith was alive and Moroni was used by others after Smith's death. Changes were made to some publications after Smith's death to change Nephi to Moroni.
LDS Historian Richard L. Anderson admits that the change was made in Pearl of Great Price to Joseph Smith's handwritten use of the name Nephi. He said it was necessary to be consistent with Smith's other uses. However, he doesn't cite any other use by Smith. And to my knowledge no scholar, LDS or non-LDS, has found any use by Joseph Smith of Moroni other than in that Elder's Journal. Once he gave the angel (or ghost, but that's another matter) a name, Joseph Smith, Jr. consistently said the name of the angel who visited him was Nephi. Any other attributions to Joseph Smith are to changes made to writings after his death, such as the change to Pearl of Great Price that Anderson acknowledges, or the change to Lucy Mack Smith's Biographical Sketches under the order of Brigham Young (the destruction of the 1853 edition at Young's order is noted in the Deseret News, as noted above).
I feel sorry for Nephi. Don't you?
This is an AWARD and not something that'll actually take up my valuable time???
That poor angel. He was Nephi. Did you know?
He had no name until 1835. In his lifetime, Joseph Smith, Jr. always used the name "Nephi" for the angel with one exception. In the Elder's Journal of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, vol 1, no 3., p 42 (Jul, 1838), he refers to the angel as "Moroni." That's it. If any scholar is aware of any other contemporaneous use by Smith of Moroni during his lifetime, I'd like to know. Joseph Smith, Jr. always used "Nephi," with that one exception.
According to Times and Seasons Vol. III pp. 749, 753, which Joseph Smith, Jr. edited:
"When I first looked upon him I was afraid, but the fear soon left me. He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi. That God has a work for me to do, ... He said there was a book deposited written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang."
The digital version of TImes and Seasons has been changed by the LDS Church to read "Moroni" instead of "Nephi." The original printed version edited by Joseph Smith, Jr., is still "Nephi."
The August, 1842, edition of the LDS publication, Millennial Star, printed in England, also published Joseph Smith's story and stated that the angel's name was "Nephi" (see Millennial Star, vol. 3, p.53). On page 71 of the same volume it states that the "...message of the angel Nephi ... opened a new dispensation to man...."
In the 1853 LDS Biographical Sketch (p. 79) of Lucy Mack Smith, the mother of Joseph Smith, Jr., she states that the name of the angel who appeared to Joseph Smith was Nephi.
In both Joseph Smith's handwritten copy of The Pearl of Great Price and the 1851 edition of the same book (page 41) it states:
"He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."
A doctoral candidate at Brigham Young University named Walter L. Whipple wrote a thesis titled "Textual Changes in the Pearl of Great Price." In it he notes that Orson Pratt changed the name from Nephi to Moroni in 1878. Fairlds.org acknowledges that changes were made to the Pearl of Great Price but leaves a stub link to discuss them eventually. Yes, one of those common fairlds.org stub links.
The 1853 edition of Lucy Mack Smith's "Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet and His Progenitors of [for] Many Generations," which refers to the Angel Nephi, was banned by Brigham Young and burned and destroyed, according to the LDS newspaper, The Deseret News, June 21, 1865. It was later republished with the name of Nephi changed to Moroni, among other changes.
"Moroni" was used by Oliver Cowdry once when Smith was alive and Moroni was used by others after Smith's death. Changes were made to some publications after Smith's death to change Nephi to Moroni.
LDS Historian Richard L. Anderson admits that the change was made in Pearl of Great Price to Joseph Smith's handwritten use of the name Nephi. He said it was necessary to be consistent with Smith's other uses. However, he doesn't cite any other use by Smith. And to my knowledge no scholar, LDS or non-LDS, has found any use by Joseph Smith of Moroni other than in that Elder's Journal.
Once he gave the angel (or ghost, but that's another matter) a name, Joseph Smith, Jr. consistently said the name of the angel who visited him was Nephi. Any other attributions to Joseph Smith are to changes made to writings after his death, such as the change to Pearl of Great Price that Anderson acknowledges, or the change to Lucy Mack Smith's Biographical Sketches under the order of Brigham Young (the destruction of the 1853 edition at Young's order is noted in the Deseret News, as noted above).
I feel sorry for Nephi. Don't you?
Amen!
(although Mormons would consider it arrogant to claim Christ died for you, but they also think it arrogance to claim we are saved)
Well, living for self-vainglory is officially sanctioned by the Mormon "scriptures." Brigham Young said of the Smith brothers:
"They lived for glory..." (D&C 135:6)
They got their 15 minutes of notorious infamy before dying together in a shootout.
You know that old saying, "Friends don't let friends drive drunk." Well, true Mormon friends should not have let fellow Mormon prisoners hang on to loaded weapons while in prison. (As any good defense attorney could have told them, 'twas potentially rather dangerous to one's health!)
Ah! A new tagline!
(The even better news, MormonDude is that you can be triply recommended for vicarious temple rituals...we know you're good @ secret proxy behind-the-scenes activity...we see how you weave in-and-out of that keyboard when Elsie has that back turned)
Oh YEah??
Just LOOK at what I found on ELSIE's bookshelf!
--MormonDuqe(I think was only a local thingy thought...)
Well, Wesleyans don’t count. (ducking)
OR...
"Friends don't let friends dead dunk."
And friends don’t let friends join Mormonism...
So...Nephi aka Moroni...started off as some primordial intelligence...(D&C 93:29,33)...
...Then was "born" as a spirit in the Kolobian ghetto galaxy...
...Sent to planet Earth to inhabit a body...as one of several "Nephis" who appear in the Book in the Mormon...
...Was "resurrected" as an "angel" to appear to Joseph Smith...
A doctoral candidate at Brigham Young University named Walter L. Whipple wrote a thesis titled "Textual Changes in the Pearl of Great Price." In it he notes that Orson Pratt changed the name from Nephi to Moroni in 1878. Fairlds.org acknowledges that changes were made to the Pearl of Great Price...'
But then "Moroni" the ex-Nephi sprung to life in 1878, forever "killing off" Nephi as a "prophet"-visitor! This resurrected ghost appeared to Joseph 34 years after Joseph died (1878)...per Mitt Romney's GG grandfather, Orson Pratt's taller tale, that is...And he -- Moroni -- like the Nephi character he replaced...had a checkered past as a spirit-born kid from Kolob, etc.
Wow! Mormonism is the only religion where when you draw a "timeline" you need to do it in a maze-like diagram form!
That poor angel. He was Nephi. Did you know?
No!
And all these years, I thought his first name was White and his surname was Salamander. I got that from no less of an authority than Gordon B. Hinckley, and Spencer Kimball, and Boyd Packer, and Eldon Tanner, and other General Authorities. So you must be wrong.
My version is really good, you know, because white denotes white magic ... as opposed to that evil black magic used by the the god of Mormonism to turn Lamanites into dark and loathsome creatures. I got that idea from the scholars at FAIR. So there!
That's DANCE.
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