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To: count-your-change

1. Understanding the greek and the context of the greek wording. You can ask the same question about every language in the bible and you can even ask that about inserting the vowels in the Hebrew translation. Context.

2. Of course. The story Jesus told of the rich man and Lazarus was real (given every story with proper names is taken as a real event). In this story it describes the afterlife and two sections of it, one side “Abrahams Bosom” and another side with heat and flames separated by an impassable gap. WHen Jesus triumphed over sin and death and then held the keys to hell and death, He took those OT saints waiting in Abraham’s Bosom and brought them to Heaven.


19 posted on 12/23/2011 9:28:20 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Your comment about the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus intrigued me. I learn by asking questions, and I have a few to ask you.

There was a great chasm between the two sides described, and Abraham was on the “good side.” Why? The rich man was told he was on the “bad side” because he enjoyed the good things in life - wasn’t Abraham one of the richest men on earth when he was alive? With what crimes did Jesus charge the rich man? What evil had he committed? What good things did Lazarus do to command that we imitate him? I am reminded of David’s comment that “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. (Psa 37:25 KJV).

Furthermore, these dead guys had fingers, tongues, etc.?

The suffering on the “bad side” was audibly and visually apparent to those on the “good side?”

Again, I see nothing in what we are told of Lazarus that makes me want to emulate him. Also, I see nothing mentioned that condemns the rich man. I don’t think that being rich is a crime, do you? Apparently he allowed the beggar, Lazarus, to enjoy some of the “crumbs” from his table - otherwise why did Lazarus arrange to be dropped off there every day?

When Jesus talked about the rich and the poor, he wasn’t talking about money. I believe He was talking about those who were rich in power and prestige versus the common people.

Do you believe that Jesus could have been using a figure of speech called satire here? Remember who His audience consisted of - His most hated enemies, the Pharisees et al. I believe He was taking their teachings, carrying them out to all their logical conclusions, and then throwing everything back in their faces. Holding a doctrine or teaching up to ridicule is what I call satire, and this is what I believe Jesus was using here. What do you think?


36 posted on 12/23/2011 10:16:29 PM PST by Overwatcher
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To: Secret Agent Man
The Greek and the context? O.K., Maybe you enlarge upon that a bit?

That parable in Luke 16 was directed to the Pharisees (vs 14), it was the Pharisees and Sadduces that took such self righteous pride in being Abraham's children yet that meant little. (Matt. 3:9) But a reversal of fortunes takes place.
(Matt. 8:11) Reclining or being in the bosom position was indicative of favor, a position never enjoyed by the rich man Pharisees.

52 posted on 12/23/2011 11:00:42 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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