Calvinism's Similarities to Islam

http://www.freewill-predestination.com/islam.html ^ | David Bennett

[muawiyah]

When Revelation is wrapped up you’ll get a fuller understanding of God ~ remember, all the message has not yet been given ~ see John of Patmos eh!

[narses]

Why are you highlighting something out of context to make a point to the ignorant?

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Indeed. Religion can be such a touchy subject. Oy.

[rzman21]

Strict Calvinism historically has not lasted long. Puritan Massachusetts inevitably gave way to Unitarianism as the people rejected Calvin’s rigidity.

The similarities between rigid orthodox Calvinism and Islam today can be found in the writings of people like Rousas Rushdoony’s Institutes of Biblical Law and in the Christian Reconstructionist movement.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2009/05/r-j-rushdoony-reconstructionist-and-racist-bigot/

The parallel between Islam and 16th and 17th century Calvinism can be found a)in their rejection of the role of human reason in faith and revelation b) in their understanding of God’s sovereignty c)in the rigid application of Old Testament law.

Islam knew a period in the early Middle Ages between the roughly 8th and 10th centuries when a group known as the Mutazila promoted an Islamic theology that accepted the role of human reason in faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu’tazila

But they were overpowered by Asharites who said that human reason had no place in theology just like the Calvinists did in their rejection of the Catholic Church.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/History_of_Islam/The_Mutazilites-Asharites_debate

The irony here is that St. Thomas Aquinas and the scholastics were influenced by the Mu’tazila when they brought Aristotle’s thought into Western Christianity.

The Asharites, who were the predecessors of modern Islam, held a similar view of God’s sovereignty to that of John Calvin to the point of saying that if someone was killed. It was God who killed them.

Scholars have also noted strong similarities between John Calvin and Muhammad ibn-Wahhab due to their strict puritannical ethic.
http://books.google.com/books?id=EEEFsVYLko4C&pg=PA98&dq=wahhab+calvin&hl=en&ei=tbvmTs_bIMrf0QG3msH7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=wahhab%20calvin&f=false

Calvin and his followers destroyed Catholic temples and the relics of saints. Wahhab and his followers did much the same. And both were theocrats.
http://books.google.com/books?id=WfGSzKDvh8IC&pg=PA119&dq=wahhab+calvin&hl=en&ei=tbvmTs_bIMrf0QG3msH7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=wahhab%20calvin&f=false

[muawiyah]

None of which means anything.

Moslems would have done all that just for the sheer joy of destroying things. Remember, they even have some guidelines for what to do with the wives and chillun' of their conquered enemies.

Those rules demonstrate that Islam is not a civilized system of belief.

[22cal]

I have Catholics in my family and among my friends would never post such an article about their faith and Islam.

Nor would I imply in other posts on this thread that I knew the true God and other Christians did not. Starting this type of infighting (and during Advent) reeks ... like smoke coming from the darkest regions.

It might interest you to know that Calvinists in large part formed this country along with its reasonable Constitution.

Calvinists in the American Revolution

[rzman21]

Once upon a time, neither was Calvinism.

[D-fendr]

his fatalistic/deterministic view of God

Only I would use the little "g" god.

It is a regression: back to "the fates". At the mercy of a capricious god tossing dice to see who suffers eternally and who does not.

It's as if both Judaism and Christianity never happened.

[rzman21]

Calvinism had largely degenerated into Unitarianism among the Founders by the time of the Revolution.

[headsonpikes]

FWIW, Oswald Spengler compares the historical roles of Mohammed and Cromwell, the Calvinist Lord Protector.

Intriguing. ;^)

[D-fendr]

Hoss, what is the title for the section of the Catechism you posted?

How about posting the whole section?

Then perhaps look at what the section you posted actually says.

I think that would make an honest post out it.

[muawiyah]

That was back in the day.

Ever hear of Bloody Queen Mary? Now there was an ol'gal who had the skies lit up with people she thought to be heretics.

No one was nice then.

Imagine if you'd had a couple of Jains visit Europe to teach the concept of Ahemsa!

[HossB86]

Why are you highlighting something out of context to make a point to the ignorant?

I'm happy you and your group here have FINALLY admitted your situation!

I posted from a website. You want to post goodies? Go ahead. I'd still like to hear your answer though -- regardless, the passage says Catholics and Muslims worship the same God.... Muslims don't worship God.

And there is your conundrum.

Hoss

[rzman21]

Calvin was perhaps the biggest enemy Jesus ever had because his thinking drove millions away from Christ.

Secularism is an offspring of Calvinism. The Enlightenment thinkers were mostly Calvinistic on origin or had some ties to it.

[narses]

Why are you highlighting something out of context to make a point to the ignorant?

[rzman21]

Not "Bloody Mary". The Protestants had their own cruel body count of Catholics.

[muawiyah]

Yes, Bloody Mary. She was very real. Not sure Philippe I/II was really happy with her (if you know what I mean). That was her husband.

Later on his son put an end to the nonsense with the Catholic/Protestant battling by dividing North America up and actually making room for a Protestant settlement area.

Even Philippe, in his life, was more than tolerant when it came to Protestants supporting the Catholic League in its battle against the Ottoman Empire and it's Navy.

My point was that people were cruel back in the day ~ but not as bad as we are. They didn't, for example, make the slaughter of the innocent unborn a primary policy of state. Frankly, today's wholesale slaughter of human flesh would have HORRIFIED even the Bloody Mary's and her counterparts everywhere ~ even the Moslems would have been distressed.

[muawiyah]

Naw, the biggest enemy Jesus ever had was the guy who devised arguments to lead the faithful into performing/and/or having abortions.

Those numbers are huge.

All the other bad guys are pikers compared to that.

[rzman21]

Nice red herring!

[rzman21]

EDMUND CAMPION—1540-1581 Todd M. Aglialoro Shortly after dawn on July 18, 1581, the cry went out: "I have found the traitors!" With a crowbar the false wall at the head of the stairs was torn away, revealing the huddled figures of Edmund Campion and two companions, three priests lately returned to their native England to minister to those resisting the oppression from the new English Church. Their discovery set them upon the path to martyrdom. Edmund Campion was born on January 25, 1540 into an England of religious and social upheaval. Protestantism had usurped the Catholic Church as the spiritual authority; the dissolution of monasteries and the suppression of Catholic beliefs and believers intensified as land-hungry nobles and men of power continued, in the name of the young, sickly Edward VI, the transformation begun by Henry VIII. Campion was 13 and the most promising scholar at Christ's Hospital school in London when he was chosen to read an address to Mary Tudor upon her arrival in London as queen in 1553. Campion received a scholarship to Oxford at age 15, and, by the time Elizabeth rose to power ("restoring" Protestantism as the national religion) upon Mary's death in 1558, he was already a junior fellow. At Oxford Campion's erudition, charisma, and charm gained him noteriety; his students even imitated his mannerisms and style of dress. Queen Elizabeth visited in 1566 and for her entertainment was treated to academic displays. Campion, the star of the show, single-handedly debated four other scholars and so impressed the queen that she promised the patronage of her advisor (and one of the principal architects of the Reformation in England) William Cecil, who referred to Campion as the "diamond of England." It was the hope of the crown that Campion would become a defender of the new faith which, though favored by the temporal power, lacked learned apologists. Yet even as he was ordained to the Anglican diaconate, he was being swayed toward Rome, influenced in great part by older friends with Catholic sympathies. In 1569 he journeyed to Dublin, where he composed his . At this point Campion was at the summit of his powers. He could have risen to the highest levels of fame had he stayed his course. But this was not to be. By the time Campion left Ireland, he knew he could not remain a Protestant. Campion's Catholic leanings were well-publicized, and he found the atmosphere hostile upon his return to England in 1571. He went abroad to Douay in France, where he was reconciled with the Church and decided to enter the Society of Jesus. He made a pilgrimmage to Rome and journeyed to Prague, where he lived and taught for six years and in 1578 was ordained a Jesuit priest. In 1580 he was called by superiors to join fellow Jesuit Robert Parsons in leading a mission to England. He accepted the assignment joyfully, but everyone was aware of the dangers. The night before his departure from Prague, one of the Jesuit fathers wrote over Campion's door, "" Campion crossed the English Channel as "Mr. Edmunds," a jewel dealer. His mission was nearly a short one: At Dover a search was underway for Gabriel Allen, another English Catholic expatriate who was rumored to be returning to England to visit family. Apparently Allen's description fit Campion also, and he was detained by the mayor of Dover, who planned to send Campion to London. Inexplicably, while waiting for horses for the journey, the mayor changed his mind, and sent "Mr. Edmunds" on his way. Upon reaching London, Campion composed his "Challenge to the Privy Council," a statement of his mission and an invitation to engage in theological debate (see "Classic Apologetics" in this issue). Copies spread quickly, and several replies to the "Challenge" were published by Protestant writers, who attached to it a derogatory title, "Campion's Brag," by which it is best known today. The power and sincerity of the "Brag" is accompanied by a degree of naivete: Campion's statement of purpose was of no value during his later trial for treason, and the challenge to debate, repeated later in his apologetic work , was as much an invitation to capture. And his capture seemed almost inevitable: Elizabeth had spies everywhere searching for priests, the most sought after of whom being her former "diamond of England." Campion and his companions traveled stealthily through the English countryside in the early summer of 1581, relying on old, landed Catholic families as hosts. They said Mass, heard confession, performed baptisms and marriages, and preached words of encouragement to a people who represented the last generation to confess the faith of a Catholic England. There were close calls. Many homes had hiding places for priests—some even had secret chapels and confessionals—and the Jesuits had to rely on these more than once. Campion took extraordinary risks, never able to turn down a request to preach or administer the sacraments, and more than once he escaped detection while in a public setting. His fortune changed while visiting the home of Francis Yate in Lyford Grange, which was west of London. Yate was a Catholic imprisoned for his faith who had repeatedly asked for one of the Jesuit fathers to tend to the spiritual needs of his household. Though it was out of the way and the queen's searchers were reportedly in hot pursuit, Campion was unable to resist the request. He traveled to Lyford, heard confessions, preached well into the night, and departed without difficulty after saying Mass at dawn. Some nuns visiting the home shortly thereafter were upset to hear they had just missed Campion, and so riders were dispatched to pursuade him to return, which he did. Word of his return reached George Eliot, born and regarded as Catholic but in fact a turncoat in the pay of the queen; he had a general commission to hunt down and arrest priests. Eliot arrived at Lyford with David Jenkins, another searcher, and attended a Mass. He was greatly outnumbered by the Catholics, and, fearing resistance, made no move to arrest Campion. He departed abruptly to fetch the local magistrate and a small militia and returned to the Yate property during dinner. News of the approaching party reached the house, and Campion and his two priestly companions were safely squirreled away in a narrow cell prepared especially for that purpose, with food and drink for three days. Later Eliot and Jenkins both claimed to have discovered the priests, offering the same story: A strip of light breaking through a gap in the wall leading to the hiding place was the giveaway—both men took credit for noticing it, and each reported being the one to break through the wall. No doubt each sought the credit for capturing the infamous Campion, for no priest was more beloved by the Catholics nor more despised by the crown. Campion was taken to the Tower and tortured. Several times he was forced to engage in debates, without benefit of notes or references and still weak and disoriented from his rackings and beatings. He acquited himself admirably, all things considered: a testament to his unparalled rhetorical skills. His trial was a farce. Witnesses were bribed, false evidence produced; in truth, the outcome had been determined since his arrival. Campion was eloquent and persuasive to the last, dominating the entire procedure with the force of his logic and his knowledge of the Scripture and law, but in vain. He and his priestly and lay companions were convicted of treason on November 14 and were sentenced to death. His address to the court upon sentencing invoked the Catholic England for which he had fought, the Catholic England which was about to die: "In condemning us, you condemn all your own ancestors—all the ancient priests, bishops and kings—all that was once the glory of England." On December 1,1581 the prophecy hanging over his door in Prague was fulfilled: Campion was hanged, drawn, and quartered. The poet Henry Walpole was there, and during the quartering some blood from Campion's entrails splashed on his coat. Walpole was profoundly changed. He went overseas, took orders, and 13 years later met his own martyrdom on English soil. Campion was beatified by Leo XIII in 1886. Todd M. Aglialoro is the editorial assistant for This Rock. This article was taken from the September, 1994 issue of "This Rock," published by Catholic Answers, P.O. Box 17490, San Diego, CA 92177, (619) 541-1131, $24.00 per year. Provided Courtesy of: Eternal Word Television Network 5817 Old Leeds Road Irondale, AL 35210 www.ewtn.com HOME - EWTNews -FAITH - TELEVISION - RADIO - LIBRARY - GALLERY - CATALOGUE - WHAT'S NEW MULTIMEDIA - GENERAL ESPAÑOL