No, I refer directly to replies by FR Catholics to the Religion Forum over the past year or two, calling the Apostle Paul crazy and denigrating the value of the books of the Bible written by him.
Which, by the way, is why I wished you good luck with that, convincing Protestants that the Apostle Paul was much closer to Trent than to Luther, because you have among your number individuals who will actively undermine such an effort.
I’m still rather curious as to why you as Eastern Orthodox would be quite so concerned about conforming Protestant perceptions of the Apostle Paul to the Roman Catholic Council of Trent.
Quite the puzzle, it is.
Trent is closer to Orthodoxy than to Protestantism, although Orthodoxy doesn’t use the Scholastic categories of Trent. All apostolic Christians regard faith alone as a heresy.
The Orthodox Councils of Jerusalem and Jassy reaffirmed Trent’s definition against Protestantism a century later.
The Council of Jerusalem approved the Confession of Dositheus:
Decree 3
We believe the most good God to have from eternity predestinated unto glory those whom He has chosen, and to have consigned unto condemnation those whom He has rejected; but not so that He would justify the one, and consign and condemn the other without cause. For that would be contrary to the nature of God, who is the common Father of all, and no respecter of persons, and would have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth {1 Timothy 2:4}. But since He foreknew the one would make a right use of their free-will, and the other a wrong, He predestinated the one, or condemned the other. And we understand the use of free-will thus, that the Divine and illuminating grace, and which we call preventing [or, prevenient] grace, being, as a light to those in darkness, by the Divine goodness imparted to all, to those that are willing to obey this — for it is of use only to the willing, not to the unwilling — and co-operate with it, in what it requires as necessary to salvation, there is consequently granted particular grace. This grace co-operates with us, and enables us, and makes us to persevere in the love of God, that is to say, in performing those good things that God would have us to do, and which His preventing grace admonishes us that we should do, justifies us, and makes us predestinated. But those who will not obey, and co-operate with grace; and, therefore, will not observe those things that God would have us perform, and that abuse in the service of Satan the free-will, which they have received of God to perform voluntarily what is good, are consigned to eternal condemnation.
But to say, as the most wicked heretics do and as is contained in the Chapter [of Cyril’s’ Confession] to which this answers — that God, in predestinating, or condemning, did not consider in any way the works of those predestinated, or condemned, we know to be profane and impious. For thus Scripture would be opposed to itself, since it promises the believer salvation through works, yet supposes God to be its sole author, by His sole illuminating grace, which He bestows without preceding works, to show to man the truth of divine things, and to teach him how he may co-operate with it, if he will, and do what is good and acceptable, and so obtain salvation. He takes not away the power to will — to will to obey, or not obey him.
But than to affirm that the Divine Will is thus solely and without cause the author of their condemnation, what greater defamation can be fixed upon God? and what greater injury and blasphemy can be offered to the Most High? We do know that the Deity is not tempted with evils, {cf. James 1:13} and that He equally wills the salvation of all, since there is no respect of persons with Him. we do confess that for those who through their own wicked choice, and their impenitent heart, have become vessels of dishonor, there is justly decreed condemnation. But of eternal punishment, of cruelty, of pitilessness, and of inhumanity, we never, never say God is the author, who tells us that there is joy in heaven over one sinner that repents. {Luke 15:7} Far be it from us, while we have our senses, to believe or to think this; and we do subject to an eternal anathema those who say and think such things, and esteem them to be worse than any infidels.
Decree 13
We believe a man to be not simply justified through faith alone, but through faith which works through love, that is to say, through faith and works. But [the idea] that faith can fulfill the function of a hand that lays hold on the righteousness which is in Christ, and can then apply it unto us for salvation, we know to be far from all Orthodoxy. For faith so understood would be possible in all, and so none could miss salvation, which is obviously false. But on the contrary, we rather believe that it is not the correlative of faith, but the faith which is in us, justifies through works, with Christ. But we regard works not as witnesses certifying our calling, but as being fruits in themselves, through which faith becomes efficacious, and as in themselves meriting, through the Divine promises {cf. 2 Corinthians 5:10} that each of the Faithful may receive what is done through his own body, whether it be good or bad.
http://www.crivoice.org/creeddositheus.html
The Coptic Orthodox Church teaches:
Do we get to heaven by faith alone, (John 3:16, Romans 3:28, Acts 13:39, and Ephesians 2:8-9) or by both works and faith?
The Holy Bible clearly says “Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17). St. James continues saying that faith alone is not enough; for even the demons believe “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe; and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?” (James 2:19-20)
Salvation is by the Grace of God alone. Our Lord died on the cross to save all humanity. That is why those who do not believe in this act on the cross will not be saved. So faith has to come first. In order for your faith to claim existence, it has to be manifested in your deeds. A man is justified by faith but righteousness must follow justification. You cannot be believing one thing and doing something that would contradict your belief. Faith is activated through our deeds.
Many verses in the Holy Bible show the importance of works “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works” (Mt 16:27).”Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:28).
Our Lord Jesus Christ showed us a glimpse of how judgment will be based on deeds. For He said, “Then the King will say to those on His right hand, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; ‘I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me” (Mt 25:34-36).
http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?qid=185&catid=144
No, I refer directly to replies by FR Catholics to the Religion Forum over the past year or two, calling the Apostle Paul crazy and denigrating the value of the books of the Bible written by him.
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Sorry, ONE, and only one Catholic had an issue with Paul and got no agreements with any other Catholics. I saw the thread where it happened.
I also knew that in the future some of the more nefarious anti-Catholics would take one person’s personal opinion and try to make it the “Catholic position”.
I watched for it and sure enough I saw this tactic used by the usual suspects.
Anyone who saw the thread and subsequent references to it and still try to say Catholics, instead of one Catholic (singular) are simply engaging in an untruth by using the plural “Catholics”.
That was me you are posting about, and you could have had the decency to ping me.
I was talking about the time before I was a Christian, reading the Bible in multiple translations. I also was coming from a Jewish background. Yes, I made some derogatory comments about Paul. My opinion of him has not changed. I respect the Catholic position about him, that he is a saint. and your reference to all Catholics doew not take into account the reality of the Catholic position.
No other Catholic agreed with me, several went out of their way to disagree, and referencing a thread from last APRIL, for heaven’s sake, is very dumb, in my opinion. It has nothing to do with your thin-skinned arguments here.