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Very good. I think that your posting is quite perceptive. We Catholics will speak of 'dying in Christ', or 'annihilation of the self' in Christ, in terms of baptism and in the Via of Christ.

We see baptism as a step on the way, not an end in itself. It gets us in the door, so to speak. It is an admission to the PGA tour, which allows us to start the tournament, but even with all the help of PGA staff, if we do not (as John Daly) hold with the practices and standards of the PGA, then we may be then excluded. With proper repentence, we may be allowed to be included once again.

However, we still do understand that salvation is entirely of God and He will save those whom He will, for whatever reasons that He holds. That is why, when you read the Catechism (if you ever do), you will see that the Church allows for the salvation of even the Muslims. We admit what we do not know, and say that we believe in these things because of the revelation of Christ. There are some things that we do not know - the particulars of Mary's Assumption, for instance. The Orthodox are even more secure in their non-definition of certain doctrines than the Latin branch.

The Orthodox side descended from philosophers and artisans. The Latins descended from engineers and soldiers. That largely describes the cultural difference between us.

But we both believe that baptism is a starting point; there is the Judgement of the individual and that we are Judged based upon what the Judge deems relevant.

<However, we still do understand that salvation is entirely of God and He will save those whom He will, for whatever reasons that He holds. That is why, when you read the Catechism (if you ever do), you will see that the Church allows for the salvation of even the Muslims. We admit what we do not know, and say that we believe in these things because of the revelation of Christ.

What Lumen Gentium means in regards to that, as well as salvation of Protestants, etc., is subject to different interpretations by Catholics.

There are some things that we do not know - the particulars of Mary's Assumption, for instance.

To name just a few.

The Orthodox are even more secure in their non-definition of certain doctrines than the Latin branch.

I am ware they are less precise and criticize the West for being so.

The Orthodox side descended from philosophers and artisans. The Latins descended from engineers and soldiers. That largely describes the cultural difference between us.

Thanks for the history.

The Orthodox side descended from philosophers and artisans. The Latins descended from engineers and soldiers. That largely describes the cultural difference between us. I don't think that statement is accurate. The Byzantine Empire was as much founded on military prowess of the earlier Roman. They managed to beat off the Arab attack on Constantinople with "Greek fire," their own special weapon. They managed to reclaim much of Southeastern Europe by the year 1000. And course, the West was converted as much by Irish monks as by Frankish arms. Rather is it not more about the Latin vs. the Greek approach to theology was different. The Greeks never subscribed to Augustine's notion of original sin. They listened to Pelagius and didn't see what the fuss was about. One may argue.of course that Pelagius pulled his punches, or since he was himself a Latin, they didn't "get"what the man was asserting. Cultural differences do matter in matters of theology as in so many other areas.