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To: 2nd amendment mama
So tell me oh-wise-one....

I'm not at all sure that sarcasm contributes to advancing a discussion and mutual understanding between Christians. I don't suppose for a moment that I'm wise, but I'm trying to reach out to fellow Christians to explain my faith.

...should I listen to a practicing homosexual, pedophile priest and trust in his word because someone claims that he is a "brilliant theologian" or "philosopher" or should I read the Bible and trust that God will give me the wisdom to be able to understand His word?

I would never listen to a homosexual, pedophile priest and I hope you wouldn't, either! But I don't think anybody has ever suggested that Augustine, Aquinas, Irenaeus, Tertullian, the Council at Ephesus, the Council at Nicaea, and the other fathers of the church were practicing homosexuals and pederasts either. Remember that Luther himself was a Catholic and did not intend to destroy the Catholic Church or to set up a new faith, only to correct errors.

Of course God gives us some discernment and judgement. But do you not see that there is a fundamental problem if there are tens of thousands of separate churches and they all say, "We read the Scripture, we interpreted it for ourselves, and our teachings are right. Yours are wrong." They can't all be right, as they all believe different things. Yet they have all been relying on private discernment for their conflicting views. So clearly private wisdom isn't enough. If it were, most God-loving people would be on the same page about God.

Can I just share this one thing with you? Sometimes Protestants dislike the Catholic Church because of misconceptions about what Catholics believe, and why. Some Protestants actually think that it's the Official Catholic Doctrine that molesting kids is okay, or homosexuality is okay, or praying to statues is okay. And that's nowhere near the truth. If Catholicism said those things were okay I wouldn't have had anything to do with the Church either. So maybe it would be helpful to talk about what specific points of doctrine you don't agree with the Church about. We might find that we have more in common than you think. I'm not an expert, but perhaps we could break down some of the barriers of misunderstanding. Whaddaya say? I think it's arrogant of you to believe that a God who is so wise wouldn't allow us to clearly understand his word that was written so long ago. You'll notice that Jesus didn't choose the sages of the day as his disciples....He chose ordinary men to spread his message - just as he does today.

71 posted on 11/28/2011 1:08:00 PM PST by ottbmare (off-the-track Thoroughbred mare)
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To: ottbmare

I really think it’s presumptuous of Catholics to believe that just by belonging to a particular church that they are the only ones who will get to spend eternity in salvation with the Lord. It’s presumptuous to believe that all non-Catholics will be banished to Hell. Nowhere does that rationale appear in the Bible. If you believe it does, kindly quote to me the exact chapter and verse.


74 posted on 11/28/2011 1:21:53 PM PST by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org | Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: ottbmare

“I would never listen to a homosexual, pedophile priest and I hope you wouldn’t, either!”

Understatement of the year.

The problem wasn’t just with a couple of priests. It’s with an entire organization leading a flock, and that same organization at best was negligent and at worst were co-conspiritors in major crimes against children. I wouldn’t listen to anyone that would tell me what is right and wrong when those very people were fostering and enabling such hatred to go on in their own houses. It wasn’t a few people. It was. The. Entire. Catholic. Leadership. I’ll take my chances on trusting in God. The church came out at one point and said they were going to create “code’s of conduct” in relation to alter boys. Um... thought that was the Bible. Evidently they needed some priests to write it down and make it plain to them though. Don’t touch the alter boys.

The veil has been torn. I no longer need corrupt men telling me what is right and wrong doctrinally when I can see with my God given eyes and use my God given brain to know, without any shadow of a doubt, know that that church put children directly in harms way. Not a couple of priests. The entire organization. I don’t need their discernment on any matter.

I don’t have a problem with what Catholics believe scripturally as much as I have a problem with the way the entire thing was handled. Makes neverland ranch look like a safe and viable option. It’s remniscient of the hollywood actor saying don’t do drugs, then going back stage and doing a huge line off a hooker. I don’t care what the Catholic church has to say after that. They lost all credibility. Amazing how a reputation can take a lifetime to create and not very long to destroy. The solution wasn’t to move guilty priests and pay off the family(s). That is enabling and makes them just as guilty as the felons.

To me the leadership of that Church is no different than Congress. They ALL need to go yet they are all so hungry to hang on to their power.


77 posted on 11/28/2011 1:42:21 PM PST by JohnC2004
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