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To: marshmallow
I read the whole thread. I see the quick hijack as usual. I detect more than a whiff of envy. These sola religions have no coherence. They have no historic authenticity. They rail against "man made traditions and institution". But all thy bring is their own opinions or the opinion of whatever teacher / man has captured their loyalty. Or they have the Holy Spirit giving the assurance for whatever they decide to believe in.

About the latter, I have asked before, but never received anything close to an answer :

How can it be that the Holy Spirit directs two believers to mutually exclusive conclusions on what Scripture means? One example, among many - can a "born again" believer fall away and lose his salvation? Some sola religions say yes; some say no.

That is confusion, of which God is not the Author.

55 posted on 11/25/2011 4:31:51 PM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever.)
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To: don-o; CynicalBear
don-o asks:
How can it be that the Holy Spirit directs two believers to mutually exclusive conclusions on what Scripture means? One example, among many - can a "born again" believer fall away and lose his salvation? Some sola religions say yes; some say no.
Maybe, just maybe, CynicalBear in his careful and alone, solo study of whatever odd translation of Holy Writ he believes to be the one and only, TRUE version of tthe Word of God can answer that time tested question. Maybe.
59 posted on 11/25/2011 4:44:45 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: don-o
”That is confusion, of which God is not the Author.”

Of course, because every bit of the “Sola” stuff depends on first denying that the Holy Spirit is capable of doing what Christ promised it could and would do.

First, they have to claim that Christ lied when he would protect His Church and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. Such folks claim the Holy Spirit let some sort conspiracy among men do exactly what Christ said would never happen. No amount of “invisible church” garbage can camouflage the fact that if the “real” Church was hidden by the explosion of a false form of Christianity, leaving no written records, and leaving no trace of itself even as Christianity swept the world, then Satan prevailed by drowning out the preaching of the Word with something else disguised as Christianity. A clear denial that the Holy Spirit is strong enough to protect the good name of Jesus Christ by protecting His Church and the preaching of The Word.

Second, they claim that for at least two thousand plus years, the Holy Spirit hasn’t found any way to make so much as a commentary on Scriptures from this invisible church available or any other scrap of evidence that there was some sort of hidden, Illuminati style, parallel church in rabbit warrens and at backyard goat cookouts. Only when we were “blessed” by one horny, drunken, priest who “rediscovered” what he claimed was “true” Christianity did the “invisible” church reemerge. Just like every heretic before and since has claimed to be preaching “true” Christianity. In order to agree with Luther one has to agree that the Holy Spirit had been fought to a standstill for almost sixteen hundred. Not only that, he claimed that everyone was predestined to heaven or hell before they were born and therefore we should sin boldly rather than tainting ourselves with the “weak faith” of good works which were actually sins at any rate. A clear denial that the Holy Spirit was dwelling with and protecting Christians or even necessary to guide anyone to Christ.

Third, they claim that Luther was correct when the first thing he did was to toss out portions of the Bible. Somehow, the Holy Spirit hadn't been able to protect the Word from being polluted when books were included in the canon. Luther also claimed several books in the New Testament should be removed as well, but the Holy Spirit couldn’t convince others that Luther was correct about both the Old and New Testaments. So, Luther was right except when he was wrong on the self same topic, the canon. Somthing that portrays the Holy Spirit as a feeble guide for Christians at best. Which begs the question of whether or not Luther could just as easily been wrong about both the Old and New Testaments or if those who followed him should have listened to him and thrown out portions of the New Testament as well. Either way, believing any of that first requires someone to believe the Holy Spirit isn’t what Christ said it was and is no where near as powerful as the forces of Satan. Those who have grown out of the heresy Luther began have to claim the Holy Spirit guides their study of the Scriptures, even though the Holy Spirit was too weak to keep the canon of Scripture pure. In addition, the only answer they have to the tens of thousands of different interpretations of Scripture is either that “everyone else is wrong”, or that disagreements over “nonessential doctrines” don’t matter. That is, each and every one of the millions who have their own interpretation is convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong, or that there are portions of the Bible the Holy Spirit doesn’t care about enough to make clear to those who believe. A clear denial that the Holy Spirit has the power to guide our study of the Scriptures or even to keep the canon pure which means that in reality each individual relies on their own mind and personal inclinations since they do not believe the Holy Spirit is strong enough to even defend the Scrptures from error.

In reality, it is denying the power of the Holy Spirit that is the acid test for all of the groups that have sprung out of the Protestant revolt against His Church, the “Solas” as you call them. In spite of their claims of relying on the Holy Spirit, in point of fact, they have to accept a severely crippled version of the Holy Spirit that doesn’t square with what the Scriptures teach before accepting anything else. While a great many people, by far the majority in fact, accept what they were taught as children including the lies about the Catholic Church and more or less rote defenses of what they were taught, the very first thing they have to accept is that the Holy Spirit is incapable of protecting His Church, incapable of protecting The Word from the inclusion of errors, and incapable of guiding those who study the Scriptures (Not to mention the huge number of translation errors one has to believe the Holy Spirit would permit in order to accept the numerous reinterpretations of Scripture and reliance on obscure alternative word usages such folks claim are required to understand what the Bible really says). Otherwise the fiction of, “essential and nonessential doctrine” wouldn’t have been dreamed up without any basis in Scriptures as a means to try and paper over the huge number of divisions among those who follow non-Catholic imitations of Christianity.

No, they’re not jealous, they’re in denial. Neck deep in denying that the Holy Spirit guides Christians and that Christ was telling the truth when He said the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. They are exactly as the Scriptures describe them, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of truth and having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.

Those who are sincerely seeking Christ should begin by studying Christianity as it was before those who deny the power of the Holy Spirit formed innumerable cults based on the heresy of Luther, Christianity as it is taught and ever since Christ as been taught, by The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded by Christ. Anyone who is sincerely seeking Christ and begins the study of Scriptures without the innumerable reinterpretations of the deniers but only with the Bible ends up coming to the Catholic Church. There are elements of the Truth in most of the imitations, but the whole Truth as taught by Christ and the Apostles isn’t in them. The Father of Lies hates seeing anyone actually study the Bible and Christianity rather than memorizing out of context verses and convenient reinterpretations or “translation errors” that always deny the power of the Holy Spirit. Which is exactly why there are so many lies about the Catholic Church and why Luther began his heresy by throwing out portions of Scripture and calling other portions nothing but straw.

Regards

112 posted on 11/25/2011 10:19:23 PM PST by Rashputin (Obama stark, raving, mad, and even his security people know it.)
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