Replies

Here you are trying to claim that we need works. But Paul says very clearly that you are wrong.

Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Paul even states that if you think works play any part that grace is no longer grace.

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

He even rebukes Peter for applying rules of conduct for salvation.

Gal. 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Now, either Paul is lying or your interpretation of those verses is in error. Paul even goes so far as to say that if conduct affects salvation than Christ died in vain.

Gal. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

You cannot have it both ways. Either it’s grace or it’s works.

Jesus says the same thing.....

John 3:14-18 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

16"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 6:28-29 28Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" 29Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."

Luke 18:9-14 9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10"Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.'

13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

You cannot have it both ways.

Why? What makes you an expert? You refuse to identify which silly sect teaches you these odd ideas, you brag that you are NOT an expert and yet you proclaim these odd dogmas. What makes you so special?

Either it’s grace or it’s works.

Again, why? What makes you an expert?

Let us see what over 2,000 years of study by the Apostles and their hand picked successors says, shall we?

GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION

The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high.
"Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.

You might find much of the lies many believe about what the Church teaches refuted there - by the Church Herself!

"Gal. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

"You cannot have it both ways. Either it’s grace or it’s works."

The law he is talking about is the old Testament Law because the temple system(old) was still going on as he wrote those very words. He is comparing the old to the new not what works(fruits) are to a christian. It's old testament works of the temple and law system that is dead.

Its the grace of Christ which will show the fruits(works) of a Christian otherwise it is useless.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God: but in their works they deny him; being abominable, and incredulous, and to every good work reprobate.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another, to provoke unto charity and to good works:

Boy! Now he is talking works. Must be Christian works.

James 2:14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?

James 2:17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

James 2:18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac

James 2:22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect?

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

James 2:25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

James 2:26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.