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To: rzman21
READ the verse... no sacrifice there ,,,

1Cr 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

The word communion in greek is koinōnia friendship... we bless it and it is friendship with Christ and HIS sacrifice..

Young's Literal Translation The cup of the blessing that we bless -- is it not the fellowship of the blood of the Christ? the bread that we break -- is it not the fellowship of the body of the Christ? It is not said, "The cup . is the blood," or "the bread . is the body," but "is the communion we have as a community of the blood but "is the communion we have as a community of the blood . body." Also notice the name given to the cup.. not the cup of Jesus blood.. but the cup of BLESSING That was one of the 4 cups of the passover meal during which thanks were offered for the passover miracle.. a miracle that was prophetic of Christ. Also note here is no priest doing the blessings but all those gathered

990 posted on 11/28/2011 6:11:47 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

You can dress it up however you wish, but you still have to ignore or denigrate the beliefs of the early Church, the same beliefs that the first Christian martyrs died for.

I, personally, would not want to be on your side of this argument.


993 posted on 11/28/2011 6:18:10 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: RnMomof7

That’s just your interpretation.

Nothing like a little Ockham’s razor action. :)


994 posted on 11/28/2011 6:19:38 PM PST by rzman21
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To: RnMomof7; rzman21

rz, the mental gymnastics are unbelievable.

Is not the bread we break a participation in the Body of Christ?

one word you will never find connected to the Eucharist in the NT is the word “represents”

only when the 16th century so called “reformers” did the “represent” doctrine hit the world scene.

let’s look at another verse:

1 Corinthians 11:27-29

whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. for anyone who eats and drinks WITHOUT DISCERNING THE BODY eats and drinks judgement upon himself.

some still don’t DISCERN THE BODY. how can anybody be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord, if the Lord is not present?


996 posted on 11/28/2011 6:21:11 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: RnMomof7
READ the verse... no sacrifice there ,,,

998 posted on 11/28/2011 6:22:39 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: RnMomof7
St. Justin the Martyr writes around in his Dialogue with Trypho 180 A.D. that: CHAPTER XLI -- THE OBLATION OF FINE FLOUR WAS A FIGURE OF THE EUCHARIST. "And the offering of fine flour, sirs," I said, "which was prescribed to be presented on behalf of those purified from leprosy, was a type of the bread of the Eucharist, the celebration of which our Lord Jesus Christ prescribed, in remembrance of the suffering which He endured on behalf of those who are purified in soul from all iniquity, in order that we may at the same time thank God for having created the world, with all things therein, for the sake of man, and for delivering us from the evil in which we were, and for utterly overthrowing principalities and powers by Him who suffered according to His will. Hence God speaks by the mouth of Malachi, one of the twelve [prophets], as I said before, about the sacrifices at that time presented by you: 'I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands: for, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, My name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure offering: for My name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord: but ye profane it.' He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane . The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. CHAPTER CXVII -- MALACHI'S PROPHECY CONCERNING THE SACRIFICES OF THE CHRISTIANS. IT CANNOT BE TAKEN AS REFERRING TO THE PRAYERS OF JEWS OF THE DISPERSION. "Accordingly, God, anticipating all the sacrifices which we offer through this name, and which Jesus the Christ enjoined us to offer, i.e., in the Eucharist of the bread and the cup, and which are presented by Christians in all places throughout the world, bears witness that they are well-pleasing to Him. But He utterly rejects those presented by you and by those priests of yours, saying, 'And I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands; for from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is glorified among the Gentiles (He says); but ye profane it.' Yet even now, in your love of contention, you assert that God does not accept the sacrifices of those who dwelt then in Jerusalem, and were called Israelites; but says that He is pleased with the prayers of the individuals of that nation then dispersed, and calls their prayers sacrifices. Now, that prayers and giving of thanks, when offered by worthy men, are the only perfect and well-pleasing sacrifices to God, I also admit. For such alone Christians have undertaken to offer, and in the remembrance effected by their solid and liquid food, whereby the suffering of the Son of God which He endured is brought to mind, whose name the high priests of your nation and your teachers have caused to be profaned and blasphemed over all the earth. But these filthy garments, which have been put by you on all who have become Christians by the name of Jesus, God shows shall be taken away from us, when He shall raise all men from the dead, and appoint some to be incorruptible, immortal, and free from sorrow in the everlasting and imperishable kingdom; but shall send others away to the everlasting punishment of fire. But as to you and your teachers deceiving yourselves when you interpret what the Scripture says as referring to those of your nation then in dispersion, and maintain that their prayers and sacrifices offered in every place are pure and well-pleasing, learn that you are speaking falsely, and trying by all means to cheat yourselves: for, first of all, not even now does your nation extend from the rising to the setting of the sun, but there are nations among which none of your race ever dwelt. For there is not one single race of men, whether barbarians, or Greeks, or whatever they may be called, nomads, or vagrants, or herdsmen living in tents, among whom prayers and giving of thanks are not offered through the name of the crucified Jesus. And then, as the Scriptures show, at the time when Malachi wrote this, your dispersion over all the earth, which now exists, had not taken place. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html It gives context to the Didache's proclamation within 30 years of St. Paul's epistles that: Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and celebrate the Eucharist after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."
1. Κατὰ κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου συναχθέντες κλάσατε ἄρτον καὶ εὐχαριστήσατε (Eucharist), προεξομολογησάμενοι τὰ παραπτώματα ὑμῶν, ὅπως καθαρὰ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν ᾐ. 2. πᾶς δὲ ἔχων τὴν ἀμφιβολίαν μετὰ τοῦ ἑταίρου αὐτοῦ μὴ συνελθέτω ὑμῖν, ἕως οὗ διαλλαγῶσιν, ἵνα μὴ κοινωθῇ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν. 3. αὕτη γάρ ἐστιν ἡ ῥηθεῖσα ὑπὸ κυρίου· Ἐν παντὶ τόπὼ καὶ χρόνῳ προσφέρειν μοι θυσίαν καθαράν. ὅτι βασιλεὺς μέγας εἰμί, λέγει κύριος, καὶ τὸ ὄνομά μου θαυμαστὸν ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσι. I'd argue this provides context to St. Paul's words in 1 Corinthians because in other places it parallels the relevant passage. Chapter 9. The Eucharist. Now concerning the Eucharist, give thanks this way. First, concerning the cup: We thank thee, our Father, for the holy vine of David Thy servant, which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever.. And concerning the broken bread: We thank Thee, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom; for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever.. But let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs." Why do this? You can't sin against a Stop sign?
1,011 posted on 11/28/2011 6:35:40 PM PST by rzman21
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To: RnMomof7

thank you...


1,125 posted on 11/28/2011 9:27:11 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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