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To: RnMomof7
"the president verbally instructs,..."

Greek has no word for "president". The actual word used was "Presbyteros"(πρεσβύτερος). It is synonymous with "priest" and is actually from where we derive the English word "priest".

This sounds more like my church than yours"

I doubt that unless you attend a Catholic Church and share in the Eucharistic Real Presence. Besides, haven't you boasted about not having a "church"? Here is Justin's account of the Liturgy from his First Apology of Justin, ch. 65:

"After we have thus washed the one who has believed and has assented, we lead him to where those who are called brethren are gathered, offering prayers in common and heartily for ourselves and for the one who has been illuminated, and for all others everywhere, so that we may be accounted worthy, now even that we have learned the truth, to be found keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an eternal salvation. Having concluded the prayers, we greet one another with a kiss. Then there is brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of water and of watered wine [the text followed by two other two genitive case terms indicating that both the water and watered wine are in the same cup], and taking them, he gives praise and glory to the Father of all, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit; and he himself gives thanks at some length in order that these things may be deemed worthy.

When the prayers and thanksgiving are completed, all the people present call out their consent, saying 'Amen!' 'Amen' in the Hebrew language signifies 'so be it.' After the president has given thanks, and all the people have shouted their assent, those whom we call deacons give to each one present to partake of the Eucharistic bread and wine and water; and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

We call this food Eucharist; and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who has been washed in the washing [baptism] which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [2 Pet 3:21], and is thereby living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread or common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by Him [see 1 Cor 11: 23-26; Lk 22; 19] and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nourished is both the flesh and blood of the incarnated Jesus [see John 6: 53-56].

The apostles, in the Memoirs which they produced, which we called Gospels, have thus passed on that which was enjoined upon them: that Jesus took bread and, having given thanks, said, 'Do this in remembrance of Me; this is My Body' [Lk 22:19; Mt 26:26; Mk 14: 22: 1 Cor 11: 23-24]. And in like manner, taking the cup, and having given thanks, He said, 'This is my Blood' [Lk 22:20; Mt 26: 27-28; Mk 14:24; 1 Cor 11: 25]. And He imparted this to them only. The evil demons, however, have passed on its imitation in the mysteries of Mithra [pagan cult]. For as you know or are able to learn, bread and a cup of water together with certain incantations are used in imitation to the mystic rites."

So tell us, have you actually read all of Justin's writings and equally accept them as in the snippet you unsuccessfully to pawn of on us, or do you reserve the right to pick and choose like everything else?

874 posted on 11/28/2011 2:05:22 PM PST by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law; RnMomof7
>> The actual word used was "Presbyteros"(πρεσβύτερος). It is synonymous with "priest" and is actually from where we derive the English word "priest".<<

That would be untrue according to the Greek Lexicon.

Presbyteros

1. elder, of age,
a. the elder of two people
b. advanced in life, an elder, a senior
1. forefathers
2. a term of rank or office
a. among the Jews
1. members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
2. of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
b. among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches)
c. The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
d. the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God

Which brings up the fact that priests of the CC are not even qualified by Biblical standards.

883 posted on 11/28/2011 2:34:25 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Natural Law; metmom; smvoice; Iscool
Greek has no word for "president". The actual word used was "Presbyteros"(πρεσβύτερος). It is synonymous with "priest" and is actually from where we derive the English word "priest".

NICE TRY...

Now for some TRUTH

The role of priest is NEVER given to the NT church..The function of the priest was to offer SACRIFICES...The jewish priesthood was a TYPE OF CHRIST which was FULFILLED on the cross.. there was not longer a NEED for a priest because the FINAL sacrifice had been offered by the one that was prophet, king and PRIEST..

the greek word for elder is different than the greek words for priest.. archiereus which translates into "High Priest" and hiereus which translates one that OFFERS SACRIFICES.

The role of the priesthood in scripture was to offer sacrifices.. That is what a priest does in scripture.. God set aside one tribe to be priests, they were not granted any land as God was their inheritance .

The greek have a couple words for priest and NEITHER is givenas a role for the new church

hiereus

1) a priest, one who offers sacrifices and in general in busied with sacred rites

a) referring to priests of Gentiles or the Jews,
2) metaph. of Christians, because, purified by the blood of Christ and brought into close intercourse with God, they devote their life to him alone and to Christ

and archiereus

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) chief priest, high priest
2) the high priests, these comprise in addition to one holding the high priestly office, both those who had previously discharged it and although disposed, continued to have great power in the State, as well as the members of the families from which high priest were created, provided that they had much influence in public affairs.
3) Used of Christ because by undergoing a bloody death he offered himself as an expiatory sacrifice to God, and has entered into the heavenly sanctuary where he continually intercedes on our behalf.

Neither role is given in scripture for the new church .. Christ fulfilled the role of Priest on the cross.. there is no more sacrifice for sin

He is now our High Priest..

The word for elder is presbyteros here is the GREEK definition (NOT PRESIDENT)

1) elder, of age,
a) the elder of two people
b) advanced in life, an elder, a senior
1) forefathers
2) a term of rank or office

a) among the Jews
1) members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
2) of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
b) among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
c) the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of GodStrongs )

Now the Holy Spirit knows the difference in the greek words.. there is no priesthood provided for in the NT church.
There was no priests in the new church. It was about 300 AD before the first priesthood appeared..

Greg Dues has written Catholic Customs & Traditions, a popular guide (New London: Twenty Third Publications, 2007). On page 166 he states, "Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions."

"A clearly defined local leadership in the form of elders, or presbyteroi, became still more important when the original apostles and disciples of Jesus died. The chief elder in each community was often called the episkopos (Greek, 'overseer'). In English this came to be translated as 'bishop' (Latin, episcopus). Ordinarily he presided over the community's Eucharistic assembly."

"When the Eucharist came to be regarded as a sacrifice, the role of the bishop took on a priestly dimension. By the third century bishops were considered priests. Presbyters or elders sometimes substituted for the bishop at the Eucharist. By the end of the third century people all over were using the title 'priest' (hierus in Greek and sacerdos in Latin) for whoever presided at the Eucharist."

910 posted on 11/28/2011 4:25:49 PM PST by RnMomof7
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