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To: metmom

Your claiming personal infallibility is evident in your refusal to consider the possibility that you are misinterpreting the Bible.

Scriptural hermaneutics requires an understanding of the underlying original language along with an understanding of the culture and times in which they were written.

Otherwise you are simply imposing your prejudices on the text.

You are committing a serious error in presuming your salvation. It doesn’t happen in an instant.

You have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It’s a process.

How old were you when you left the Catholic Church?


2,018 posted on 12/02/2011 2:49:20 PM PST by rzman21
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To: metmom
Let's take John 15:26, which the Nicene Creed directly quotes from as a prime example of my point because St. Jerome's translation of this verse from Greek into Latin led to the Great Schism of 1054. 26"But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. cum autem venerit paracletus quem ego mittam vobis a Patre Spiritum veritatis qui a Patre procedit ille testimonium perhibebit de me The Latin verb procedere does not directly correspond with the nuances of the Greek, which means to send. 26Ὅταν ἔλθῃ ὁ παράκλητος ὃν ἐγὼ πέμψω ὑμῖν παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς, τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας ὁ παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκπορεύεται, The Greek word, however, means to come out of and take origin from. http://concordances.org/greek/ekporeuetai.htm The Latins didn't understand the culture or the context of the Greek, which led them to add "and the Son" to the Latin translation of the creed. This inexact translation obscures the role of the Father as the source of the Trinity. And we ended up dividing Eastern and Western Christianity as a result of this simple mistranslation and misunderstanding of the context. Nuance matters when you read your Bible.
2,021 posted on 12/02/2011 3:10:37 PM PST by rzman21
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To: rzman21; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...
Your claiming personal infallibility is evident in your refusal to consider the possibility that you are misinterpreting the Bible.

Pure conjecture. Show me where I stated it or stop pretending to read my mind.

You are committing a serious error in presuming your salvation. It doesn’t happen in an instant.

Sure it does because I have died and my life is now hidden with Christ in God.

2 Corinthians 5:17 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Colossians 1:11-14 11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. 13He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Colossians 2:11-14 11In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Colossians 3:3 3For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

1 John 5:11-13 11And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

You have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It’s a process.

How disingenuous to quote only part of a sentence. YOPIOS, no doubt. Take it in context and finish the thought and you'll see how badly anything can be misinterpreted by cherry picking sentences and passages of Scripture.....

Philippians 2:12-13 12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Which would then leave me something to boast about before God. But it's not by works of any kind but by His mercy and grace as a GIFT. It's God working IN me to produce fruit, not me adding my works to earn my salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Galatians 3:1-6 1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

How old were you when you left the Catholic Church?

Twenty-two.

2,026 posted on 12/02/2011 3:28:24 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: rzman21; metmom
You have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It’s a process.

Out of context scripture is an affront to God...

1st the DOES NOT SAY .."work out TO BE SAVED.. the scripture says they ARE ALREADY SAVED..

This is about walking the christian walk

Now in context

Phl 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure

The terms beloved or brother are the terms used by the apostles for the saved

This is not talking about getting saved..it is talking about their walk...

RZ..when will you know you are good enough and have done enough to be saved??

2,028 posted on 12/02/2011 3:38:58 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: rzman21
How old were you when you left the Catholic Church?

Evidently well before we had the Canon and the Mass.

2,159 posted on 12/02/2011 8:33:44 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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