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To: CynicalBear
That whole thing is one of total conjecture and “could have been”. It’s amazing how anyone who has the ability to think logically could use that type of unsubstantiated information and conjecture to base their eternal future on.

Oh, I agree, and when stuff like this is considered "trustworthy", it's no wonder that the future dogmas about Mary developed - and continue to develop.

1,893 posted on 12/01/2011 2:43:05 PM PST by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums

The trouble with your analysis of the Church fathers is that you start with your sectarian bias first in judging their interpretation of the Bible.

Isn’t your interpretation of the meaning of the Bible any less conjectural?

There isn’t a single verse in scripture that explicitly says that Jesus was speaking figuratively when he said: “This is my body” “This is my blood.”

Or 1 Peter 3:21, which pronounces that “Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you— not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience— through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,” NASB

There isn’t exactly a single verse in scripture that explicitly says that baptism is symbolic either.

It comes down to TRADITION of what verses you choose to stitch together to create your catechetical position.

Then you choose to ignore or dismiss verses like 2 Thessalonians 2:14 and 3:6, which challenge your interpretation of the Traditions of Men.

Which refer to the 600+ Mitzvot that the Pharisees and their contemporary successors expect the Jews to observe.
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

St. Paul says we are to live by the spirit of the law, not by the letter of the law.

The Christian Bible references the letter and the spirit of the law in Romans 2:29 NASB. Though it is not quoted directly, the principle is applied using the words “spirit” and “letter” in context with the legalistic view of the Hebrew Bible. This may be the first recorded use of the phrase.
In the New Testament, Pharisees are seen as people who place the letter of the law above the spirit (Mark 2:3–28, 3:1–6). Thus, “Pharisee” has entered the language as a pejorative for one who does so; the Oxford English Dictionary defines Pharisee with one of the meanings as A person of the spirit or character commonly attributed to the Pharisees in the New Testament; a legalist or formalist. Pharisees are also depicted as being lawless or corrupt (Matthew 23:38); the Greek word used in the verse means lawlessness, and the corresponding Hebrew word means fraud or injustice.
In the Gospels Jesus is often shown as being critical of Pharisees, precisely because of his position that the “Spirit of the Law” is the better way. He is more like the Essenes than the other Jewish groups of the time (Sadducees, Pharisees, Zealots), however, The Pharisees, like Jesus, believed in the resurrection of the dead, and in divine judgment. They advocated prayer, almsgiving and fasting as spiritual practices. The Pharisees were those who were trying to be faithful to the law given to them by God. Not all Pharisees, nor all Jews of that time, were legalistic. Though modern language has used the word Pharisee in the pejorative to describe someone who is legalistic and rigid, it is not an accurate description of all Pharisees. The argument over the “Spirit of the Law” vs. the “Letter of the Law” was part of early Jewish dialogue as well.
Some[who?] might connect 2 Corinthians 3:6 with such an idea, but that passage talks about “the letter” versus “the Spirit”, where “the letter” refers to the Old Covenant and its rules, while “the Spirit” refers to the Holy Spirit (and the New Covenant). The new covenant described in Jeremiah 31:31-33 is a common theme of the prophets, beginning with Hosea.[1] According to Jeremiah, “the qualities of the new covenant expounded upon the old are : a) It will not be broken; b) Its law will be written in the heart, not merely on tablets of stone; c) The knowledge of God will deem it no longer necessary to put it into written words of instruction.”[1] According to Luke (Lk 22, 20), and Paul, in the first epistle to the Corinthians (1 Cor 11, 25), this prophecy was fulfilled only through the work of Jesus Christ,[1] who said “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.” Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. His purpose was to encourage people to look beyond the “letter of the law” to the “spirit of the law”...the principles behind the commandments and the law’s intention. The law was never intended as a moral slide-rule, but as evidence of transgression. Mankind turned this declaration into a moral code book. Jesus quotes the book of Deuteronomy and Leviticus: “All the Law can be summed up in this: to love Yahweh with all your heart, all your mind and all your heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself” (paraphrased).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law#The_Bible

It says nothing about Catholic or Orthodox practices apart from the reader’s anti-Catholic biases that precede their reading of the sacred texts.


1,907 posted on 12/01/2011 3:46:43 PM PST by rzman21
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