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To: CynicalBear

It’s the Catholics who can’t seem to make everything agree with scripture. I’ll use the simple concept of the bodily assumption of Mary as an example. Catholics couldn’t even agree or settle that issue until the 1950s and even then couldn’t reconcile it with scripture.

>>The Assumption isn’t a problem for the Orthodox. They believe in it. Frankly, what the Protestants think about it doesn’t really matter.

It fits the definition of universal assent and antiquity.

What matters is that the Theotokos is in heaven, and as Martin Luther wrote, how she got there body and soul is a mystery.

Apocalypse 12:1-18
1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth: and was in pain to be delivered. 3 And there was seen another sign in heaven. And behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns and on his heads seven diadems. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered: that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her son was taken up to God and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her, a thousand two hundred sixty days.
7 And there was a great battle in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought, and his angels. 8 And they prevailed not: neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world. And he was cast unto the earth: and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of the testimony: and they loved not their lives unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man child. 14 And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert, unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth, after the woman, water, as it were a river: that he might cause her to be carried away by the river. 16 And the earth helped the woman: and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 18 And he stood upon the sand of the sea.’’

Another would be the paying of indulgences or eating meat on Friday.
>>Where was buying indulgences ever a dogma? You keep forgetting that the Council of Trent condemned the practice.

Eating meat or not eating meat on Friday is a matter of custom that the Church can establish or dispense with. I might add that it’s still on the books and that Eastern Catholics do more than just that.

We give up meat and dairy products, fast during Advent, Lent, the Dormition fast, etc.

You are just ignorant about Catholicism, period.


1,367 posted on 11/29/2011 3:58:20 PM PST by rzman21
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To: rzman21; smvoice; HossB86; RnMomof7; metmom; boatbums; caww
>>It fits the definition of universal assent and antiquity.<<

No, no, no. Your accusation was the interpretation of scripture. Not universal assent and antiquity.

>>and as Martin Luther wrote<<

When did Martin Luther become scripture?

>>how she got there body and soul is a mystery<<

So Mary was actually the first resurrection and not Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:

And could you tell us how she snuck in there between what scripture says will be the next resurrection after Christ?

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

>> And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her, a thousand two hundred sixty days.<<

So Mary is coming back to earth to flee into the wilderness during the last 3 1/5 years of the tribulation?

>> And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man child.<<

And she’s going to be persecuted again on earth when the dragon (satan) is cast down to the earth? Wow! I thought she wasn’t going to be tormented any more. Why would Christ to that to His mother?

>> And the serpent cast out of his mouth, after the woman, water, as it were a river: that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.<<

And she’s going to have to escape from the water like that? My goodness, Jesus surely has some trouble in store for her still.

1,393 posted on 11/29/2011 4:39:04 PM PST by CynicalBear
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