Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
Protestants reject Jesus when he says
John 17:21:
“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
1 Corinthians 11:18-19
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
Matthew 18:15-18
15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
Protestantism has only begotten schisms and more eggregious heresies such as Unitarianism, Universalism and atheism.
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you THE GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also YE HAVE RECEIVED, and wherein YE STAND, by which also YE ARE SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures; and the HE WAS BURIED, and that HE ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the Scriptures." 1 Cor. 15:1-4.
Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS. THAT is the gospel. Nowhere is that mentioned in your creed.
No, much better yet why don’t you tell us how many of those we are told “were saved” in the New Testament writings of the Apostles understood any of those things? After all, none of those “creeds” had been articulated at that point. The jailor for instance. Which creed do you think he was required to recite from memory? We are told those people were saved. Was it simpler then? Why were more requirements added later? You want me to proclaim something those people were not required to understand. Why?
Slight correction in your terminology. Latria is the adoration and worship reserved for God. Dulia is the veneration directed to saints. A special form of veneration, hyperdulia is reserved for Mary.
They go from "..please sir..might I have some more soup please..." to "WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS" in a single moment. Like Tiny Tim on steroids. "The GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL...please, sir, have mercy on me a poor sinner..."
The title Pope means father. It is also used by the Bishop of Alexandria.
I will leave the caveat that although I accept the Roman primacy, my views on how it should be excercized are far from Ultramontane.
Other Scriptural Evidence for Petrine Primacy
Although many non-Catholics delight in trying to discredit Matthew 16:18 with all that it says about Saint Peter’s position as the head of the apostles, as a Catholic apologist there are two very important facts to remember about this tactic. Firstly, it doesn’t actually work – the Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16:18 can’t be discredited in this way. Secondly, and most importantly, Matthew 16:18 is not the only verse in Scripture which supports the doctrine of Petrine Primacy.
It is very important to realize that none of these verses explicitly say “The doctrine of Petrine Primacy is true” or that “Peter was the first pope and the Catholics are right”. However, when taken as whole, all of these verses clearly show that Peter enjoyed a special place among the Apostles, and that it was him Jesus looked to to lead and and strengthen them.
Peter speaks for all of the Apostles
In several places in the Scriptures, Peter speaks for all of the Apostles – the others are not consulted, or they simply assumed to agree with Peter. This shows that Peter was the leader of the group.
Matthew 19:27, Mark 8:29, Luke 8:45, 12:41, John 6:69
“Peter and his companions”
When describing the Apostles, the Gospels writers often chose not to list them individually by name or even write something like “the followers of Jesus” but rather wrote “Peter and his companions”. Clearly, one does not describe a group of followers of another man as “Peter and his companions” unless Peter is the leader.
Luke 9:32, Mark 16:7, Acts 3:37
Peter heads every list
When the Gospel writers do give a list of the Apostles by name, Peter’s name heads every single list. This is far more than just a co-incidence, especially when taken with all the other evidence.
Matthew 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13
Peter leads the meeting to replace Judas
When the Apostles decide to replace Judas in Acts 1:13-26 it is Peter who is clearly “in charge” and leading or chairing the meeting.
Peter’s name outnumbers any other Apostle’s
The names of all the Apostles appear in Scripture – what many people do not realize is that Peter’s name appears 195 times in Scripture, which is more than all the rest put together. If Peter is no more important than them, why is his name mentioned so many times more?
The Keys of the Kingdom
In Matthew 16:19 (immediately after the “On this rock” verse) Jesus gives Peter the keys of the kingdom and the power to bind and loose. This is an example of typology – the type being referenced here is the prime minister of the old Judaic Kingdom (referenced in Isaiah 19:20-22.) The keys to the kingdom were a symbolic representation of the authority to make pronouncements and judgments in the King’s name (the authority to “bind and loose”). The fact the same phrase is used in both passages of Scripture makes the comparison clear. Peter is being appointed as the prime minister of the new Kingdom – an office which has the authority to speak for the King (Jesus). It is necessary to understand that the Petrine office of the prime minister of the kingdom does not give him authority to “dictate” to Heaven – the authority itself remains with God, but it is exercised on earth through the office of the pope. And while the pope in theory has the authority to do anything, he is protected from error by the infallibility of his office.
Jesus prays for Peter so that he may strengthen others
In Luke 22:32 Jesus says that He has prayed for Peter so that Peter may be able to support the other Apostles – He does not pray for them as separate individuals. This clearly shows that Peter is viewed by Jesus as the head of the Apostles, and as representing the entire Church.
Peter is appointed shepherd of Christ’s flock
In John 21:17 Jesus tells Peter to feed his sheep – appointing him shepherd of His flock. This is a command given specifically to Peter, and not the rest of the Apostles. We are all required to carry out spiritual and corporal works of mercy, but the Jesus’ words make it very clear that Peter had a specific and special responsibility.
The angel specifically mentions Peter
When Mary Magdalena goes to the tomb on Easter Sunday morning, she sees an angel who tells her to go and tell Jesus’ followers that He is risen. In Mark 16:7 the angel makes a very special point of telling Mary to inform Peter; his name is the only name mentioned.
Jesus appears to Peter
In Luke 24:34 the Apostles say that Jesus has appeared to Simon [Peter] – they do not mention any other appearances, nor that they have seen Him themselves. Either the appearance to Peter was the only one which they were aware of, or they recognized that it was the only one worth mentioning. In either case, the importance of Peter is clear.
Peter leads the early Church
In the book of Acts there are many instances of Peter taking the initiative and being the first person to undertake a number of tasks or responsibilities. While individuals might take the initiative here and there, only the recognized and authentic leader of the Church would undertake all of these “firsts”;
Acts 2:14 – Peter leads the Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 – Peter received the first converts
Acts 3:6-7 – Peter performed the first miracle at Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 – Peter inflicted the first punishment (Ananias & Saphira)
Acts 8:21 – Peter excommunicated the first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 15:7 – Peter led the first council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:9 – Peter pronounces the first dogmatic decision
Peter is given divine revelation
Peter is given divine revelation – and not just any revelation, but the revelation that Gentiles are to be allowed into the Church – in Acts 10:44-46. This is such a significant and important aspect of Christianity – its universal scope – that it underscores Peter’s authority.
Saint Paul visits Peter
In Galatians 1:18 Saint Paul writes that he visited Cephas [Peter] when he was in Jerusalem – why would he do this if Peter did not have some sort of authority? He specifically says that he saw no other Apostles, except James the brother of the Lord (who was the Bishop of Jerusalem – so it would be logical for him, as a matter of courtesy, to visit him). But why does Paul meet specifically with Peter and no-one else? The logical answer is that Peter has an authority which the other Apostles do not.
The various scriptural evidences do not exist on their own or in isolation; no single verse is a firm proof of Petrine Primacy. However, when taken as a whole, together with the non-Scriptural support, they form a very compelling case against which it is difficult to logically argue.
There isn’t any contradiction between Christ and his Church.
1John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
this is what a strong delusion looks like.......
and yet, we have those claiming to be Christian, claiming they are saved by their faith in Jesus Christ who can’t even name one Christian from the 3rd century and one from the 6th century!!
So?
Why is it important?
Not to mention that anyone I pick will no doubt be labeled as a heretic, thus "confirming" any judgment about my profession of faith in Christ, by default.
I don't doubt that WHOEVER I pick would not pass muster by simple virtue of the fact that I picked them and I've already been labeled a heretic by Catholics on this board.
Try your silly, little, meaningless game on someone else. I have better things to do,like gaze at the lint in my navel.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
YOU must have missed it. Let me repeat:
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Acts 13:39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
1 JOHN 2:12 I write to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.
Intellectual assent to a creed is not putting faith in Christ.
That would be compelling, except for one thing. Paul was saved in Acts 9, and the gospel of the uncircumcision (gentiles) was given to him by divine revelation. The divine revelation to Peter was confirming what Christ had already given to Paul. Acts 9 is the significant and important aspect of Christianity, in its universal scope. Which, if you would read Gal. Chapters 1 and 2, you would clearly see.
God says differently in the scriptures?
really?
name one person that was saved after Pentecost that the Church was not used by the Holy Spirit as the instrument of salvation?
It's fluff without the Gospel of your salvation.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2678253/posts?page=357#357
rogator: “In a manner of speaking it is correct.
Catholics look on diocesan bishops (Catholic and Orthodox) as the successors of the apostles who founded the particular church of their locale. In this manner a person could be a member of the Church of Corinth, Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Tucson or Pittsburgh.
Those of us who prefer Roman Catholic (actually Latin Catholic) are emphasizing our connection with the Roman Pontiff rather than the (e.g.) Maronite or the Melkite Patriarch.
Emphasizing the connection with the particular church rather than the Roman Church is IME common among very liberal Catholics and liberal bishops, many of whom actually see Roman Catholic as a derogatory term.”
Not to mention the different flavors of Catholicism such as....... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sect
Sects
Roman Catholic sects
There are many groups outside the Roman Catholic Church which are regarded as Catholic sects, such as the Community of the Lady of All Nations, the Palmarian Catholic Church, the Philippine Independent Church, the Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church, the Free Catholic Church, the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, and others.
The Sodalitium Christianae Vitae started in Lima, Peru, has multiple cases of psychological abuses experienced by youth that were attracted to the movement.[16]
There is also Russian orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Ukrainian Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Coptic (Egyptian) to name a few more.
They most certainly do not adhere to the doctrinal position established by Rome on a number of fronts which many FRoman Catholics consider critical to Catholic faith.
it’s important because there are those ( you may know a few ) who don’t hold the Faith which was believed in the 1st century, 2nd century, 3rd century, 4th century, etc. etc. in other words, they don’t hold the Christian Faith.
one aspect of this Faith is we are baptized into Christ for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit.
a different gospel started being preached in the 16th century that denies the Catholic Faith and sought to attack the historical, orthodox Christian Faith as “pagan”
there are many today who think they are “saved”, but actually they have rejected the Faith and are under a strong delusion.
know anybody this might apply to?
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