Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
It’s about relationship, not religion and rules and regulations.
>>The two aren’t mutually exclusive. If you are married, aren’t there certain guidelines you follow to maintain peace with your spouse?
Knowing the neighborhood.......
*********Disclaimer*********
MB, I am NOT looking for personal information. I do not want you to answer those questions. They are for the purpose of making a point, not of making it personal.
God knows that I would hope that you would answer them in the honorable way and honestly that’s what I would expect out of you.
The point is for comparison and illustration only since true believers are the Bride of Christ and the adopted into His family as sons. The parallels are ones God has used for us to understand our relationship with Him, and so valid in their application.
Later......
It’s partly my own observation based on the Catholics I know who left, and those who stay really are woefully ignorant of their Catholicism.
Catholics aren’t taught apologetics, so they know how to respond when preachers start banging against their already weak faith.
When you post scripture verse I don’t read them the way you intend them to be read because I always ask myself who the intended audience was when the were written along with asking how they would have been received in antiquity.
The more I started studying the scriptures and the Church Fathers, the more I came to see how limited Protestant Biblical hermaneutics were.
Protestants engage in eisegesis by pigeonholing the Bible into the present. If you want to understand the Bible, you need to read the Desert Fathers.
Catholicism and a relationship with Jesus Christ are not mutually exclusive. Try reading the Desert Fathers sometime.
http://popekirillos.net/EN/books/Sayingsd.pdf
Or buy a copy of the Philokalia because it describes the proscriptions of scripture in action.
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/cms_content?page=1784515&sp=85684
Catholicism and Scholasticism are not the same thing. Scholasticism presented an ossified Christianity that deteriorated because it created an imbalance between faith and reason.
And smug sounding judments of either of us are
exceedingly MORE righteous?
You have a Scripture reference for that one?
WELL AND ACCURATELY PUT—re at least a portion of the seemingly guilty, imho.
Thx Thx.
| "'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it.... |
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
Nope, never said they were.
Try reading the Desert Fathers sometime. Or buy a copy of the Philokalia because it describes the proscriptions of scripture in action. Catholicism and Scholasticism are not the same thing. Scholasticism presented an ossified Christianity that deteriorated because it created an imbalance between faith and reason.
If you want to read the church fathers and follow Catholicism, have at it.
I'll read Scripture and follow Christ.
Where are you getting that version of 2 Corinthians 2:11? I can find no version that reads that way.
So in that case would you say he really loved her? Neither would we. But would he do those “deeds” that showed he loved her because he loved here or what? No Protestant takes the view that you accuse them of. Not one that I have ever met says that a person who is truly saved would not do deeds that show that Christ lives within them and influences their thoughts and actions. I know that accusing Protestants of that makes them feel good but it’s totally untrue.
Let’s get down to basics here. Do you believe the simplest interpretation of a scripture verse is the correct one?
According to your favorite verse, the Jews committed idolatry when they build the Ark of the Covenant and the Temple in Jerusalem.
Obeying God is not idolatry.
Disobeying God may well be.
Also, the ISRAELITES did NOT BOW DOWN TO THE ARK!
ONLY the HIGH PRIEST stood before the Ark and that ONCE A YEAR!
That ANY RC's could conflate the issue is more than a little problematic.
Your claim is an extremely hollow and shallow one. Compare the FACTS regarding even the Old Testament practices of Israel with the average Maryolatry behaviors of the RCC around the world.
THERE'S NO LOGICAL COMPARISON.
BTW, It's far from my favorite verse. It's just one of the ones most fitting to share with RC's hereon.
The Church is not what is spoken of in Revelation.
You have neither shown where the Church has ended nor that it will.
Christ’s promise is trustworthy concerning His Church.
14But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. 15For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things?
Nor is it 1 Corinthians 2:11-16
14But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. 15For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things?
Nor is it 1 Corinthians 2:11-16
As a starting point, generally the clearest and most obvious interpretation is most likely to be the correct one.
As a starting point.....
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