Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
OK I’ll compromise I won’t call you a heretic. But I’ll call what you believe heresy. Fair?
The lying, satan worshipping porcine usual suspects leave a scent trail all over the Religion Forum.
No one is fooled, it’s distinctive, foul, malodorous,
All we can do is pray for them. I plan to light some candles and pray a rosary for their salvation tonight. Perhaps St. Jude, patron of hopeless cases, can help.
PS flame bait is put out there, so that maybe one of us will over-react and get booted. I recommend we just pray all the more for their deliverance from ugliness and filth, futile though it may seem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qRSo-h6JBw
Then Yeshua would be a false prophet. Take the words of the Master Himself:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The words of YHWH are driven by precedent, unlike false religions which allow for addition after the fact (Roman tradition, Muslim Hadiths for instance). Yashua CANNOT have changed Torah, else He would have sinned against YHWH, and His perfect sacrifice would not be perfect. Likewise, His disciples, by the very definition, cannot abrogate the words of their Master.
St.John Chyrsostom comments showing that St. Paul is referring to the possibility of salvation for the Gentiles who don't keep the kosher laws.
The law has never been a means to salvation. Salvation has always been a matter of faith.
As always:
Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, do good to those who mistreat you.
And:
... Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil ...
Right.
If you want to understand what St. Paul and Jesus were preaching against read about what the modern Orthodox Jews believe about the Law. They are literally the successors of the Pharisees.
Only the Pharisees survived the fall of the Temple.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/756399/jewish/The-613-Commandments.htm
The Catholic Church completely rejects the need to follow those laws that were abrogated in the NT.
Well, if you want to call the Bible heresy, I suppose there's no stopping you. It's your choice.
FWIW, all the attempts at insults are not worth the bandwidth. The behavior exhibited by most of the Catholics on this board is not unexpected. It fits in perfectly with what I've come to expect out of Catholics in general, completely consistent with the behavior of the real life Catholics I lived and worked with. It doesn't bother me in the least as it is NOT unexpected. Matter of fact, I pretty much count on it and have rarely been disappointed.
If that kind of behavior shows the fruit of Catholicism, then it's no wonder the RCC is losing members. Aside from the disagreement with the Catholic theology which is why I made my final break with the church, this kind of behavior, reinforced on this thread alone, would keep me away for good.
Any *religion* which cannot effect a change in the hearts and lives of its adherents shows that it has no redeeming power.
>>>>>Any *religion* which cannot effect a change in the hearts and lives of its adherents shows that it has no redeeming power.
As is clearly seen in the satanic cult of bibliolatry.
And if the Law itself, handed down from Mt. Sinai by God Himself, could not save, no man made additions to that Law can save either.
If baptism could have saved, combined with faith, then why didn't God just do that from the very start? Why wait so long? If communion was required for salvation, why wasn't it incorporated into the Law from the beginning?
The Catholics whole premise that these things save is flawed from beginning to end. Their problem is that they don't stop to think through what their church teaches or bother comparing it to Scripture.
Salvation is indeed through faith alone. Thank God that it doesn't depend on our works and rituals.
Galatians 2:15-21 15We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
17But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 3:21-29 21Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Yes, Yeshua and all his disciples railed against the !!TRADITIONS!! of the Pharisees. That does not discount the Master's COMMANDMENT to DO and TEACH the Law.
The Catholic Church completely rejects the need to follow those laws that were abrogated in the NT.
... Which is the primary evidence that the Roman church is not infallible, and that it does not teach the truth.
Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Seems to me the Lord Jesus put them in their place on that issue...called them “White washed hypocrites”...”Brood of Vipers”...and then pronounced many “woe is you” over them for carrying their own righteous acts as if those could somehow cleanse their way before a Holy God.
It's just another stumbling block which holds people back from enjoying the relationship Jesus desires with them...hard to see Christ thru the “veil” of legalism. That very “curtain” which God almighty Himself tore down top to Bottom....and with it said...”The Just shall live by faith”!
God is not interested in sacrifices for sin but in a pure heart.
Psalm 51:16-17 16 For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering. 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Micah 6:6-8 6 "With what shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? 7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?"
8He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
You left out another on sola ecclesia, autocratic confirming all to itself by the ultramontane “most Rev.” Manning:
“It was the charge of the Reformers that the Catholic doctrines were not primitive, and their pretension was to revert to antiquity. But the appeal to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies that voice to be Divine....
I may say in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity. It rests upon its own supernatural and perpetual consciousness. Its past is present with it, for both are one to a mind which is immutable. Primitive and modern are predicates, not of truth, but of ourselves.” - “Most Rev.” Dr. Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, Lord Archbishop of Westminster, “The Temporal Mission of the Holy Ghost: Or Reason and Revelation’ (New York: J.P. Kenedy & Sons, originally written 1865, reprinted with no date), pp. 227-228.
AMEN to that! In fact, just about every ritual and rite tends to lead away... Only the stuff that YHWH has sanctioned leads TOWARD. And that IS it's function - to lead one forward in symbolism TOWARD the truth - they cannot be the truth itself. Pictures and rehearsals...
As long as it's an accepted norm for any comment on any topic by someone who is Catholic to become a pretext for the repetition of lies and slander it's going to stay just the way it is. That's why I've said that more things should be caucus posts but when even mentioning what you personally thought of something before becoming Catholic or comparing a Catholic and non-Catholic interpretation of something constitutes a breech of the caucus rules, that's unworkable as well. Any "truce" will be the same as an Islamic truce, something the slander lovers will make do with until they feel like they're ready to start the same old games. It's interesting that when someone knowledgeable confronts them they have nothing to counter with other than vain repetition of out of context or unrelated Scriptures reinterpreted to suit personal opinion. They depend on making knowledgeable folks sick of seeing the same lies repeated and giving up.
Due to the their personal illusions, some people can't stand to see a Catholic make any kind of comment without using that comment as a pretext to attack all Catholics who have ever lived, anywhere, including the Apostles. Others just hate the Catholic Church and probably don't even believe in Christ, they just love to slander His Church. They're all examples of the sort of folks who do not want to let anyone voice an opinion or point of view they don't agree with and it just so happens that a group of such folks hang out on the FR Religion forum. The RF is what it is, take it or leave it. At least that's the way I see it.
I first came here because someone told me there were folks who had crossed the Tiber in both directions and I could get some questions answered. Even asking questions, though, put me on the anti-Catholic chitlist within days but it sure did make my decision a lot easier. Christ cannot be a part of the sort of thing that anti-Catholics routinely practice here and seeing them in action was an answer to prayers. It showed me that to follow Christ one has to be a part of His Church, The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Christ Himself founded.
Regards
(and thanks for a lot of very informative posts and links, God Bless You)
Absolutely no accountability or responsibility. Just not Catholic and that's all that counts.
Honestly, Mark, there are responsible, articulate and knowledgeable Protestants. They are aware of the choice they make and its risks, challenges, responsibilities and implications; they make an informed choice rather that rebel to rebel.
But we do not see that here.
It's the church of me, my and mine. The image in the mirror is what counts. All they have to do is label it 'Christian' and throw in a few specially selected Bible verses.
MB: Here we have the ultimate buck passing. You are not responsible for your sins - Somebody else is.
Did I say that or are you misrepresenting what I said again?
Not only here, but in many of your posts.
MB: Therefore you get a free pass no matter what you do.
You mean like the mafia hitman who's a good, practicing Catholic and can just go to confession, which the priest is bound to keep silent about, and confess his sin and pay no legal or civil penalties, but takes a few trips about the rosary and voila' he's all free and clear.
You keep on saying that you were raised Catholic and then you spout antiCatholic nonsense like this. Is your memory faulty?
And in case that's not enough, he can stack up some good works feeding the poor and get that get out of purgatory free cards. Or maybe he can just buy some indulgences......Kind of pre-pay.
Something's gone askew down at the mill. Is this faulty memory or are you simply spewing antiCatholicisms in the hope of justifying leaving the Faith?
You've been told otherwise numerous times by numerous posters but go ahead, delude yourself.
You guys were ones who convinced me of that position. You claim that you deserted the Faith for theological ones, but I think that you guys are trying to justify that decision to yourselves more than trying to convince us.
I have no doubt it feeds so much insecurity and spiritual pride.
That is the position of the failed Catholic - having to continuously justify that condition to not only the world, but to yourself.
There's five or six of us on this thread that will dispute that.
I know. And in every post pertaining to the subject, they all provide evidence to the contrary.
Very good. The church of I me mine. My salvation. My mediator. My personal Lord and Saviour, bruited about like a personal trainer or personal valet or personal parrot that sits in a cage and squawks upon command. If you read the fervent Protestant posts here objectively, I trust that you'll see the same trend. It's the gimme gimme mindset of much of American culture - all the way from the seasoned citizens whacking their Congressmen with their canes in order to ensure their Social Security benefits do not decrease in their increases all the way to the whinging and demanding kids who not only expect XBoxes, but will call the police if their 'guardian' of the month won't immediately give it to them.
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