Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
Amen
They were fellow elders together.
There is nothing in that Council of Jerusalem which even nearly resembles the RCC as it is today.
The Holy Spirit through Paul lays out some very specific qualifications for elder and deacon, but nowhere is there any indication of any kind of centralized authority controlling all the churches. They were separate entities, completely capable of being independent and self-sufficient as travel and communication in those days precluded the kind of massive conglomeration of churches being controlled by a centralizes authority we see today.
In addition, it is also a safety valve should error creep into the church, then the whole thing doesn't implode into heresy, there's always a remnant which will survive to pass on the truth.
You mean like Rome did at Trent?(grin)
Catholic translations prior to Luther spoke of faith alone at Romans 3:28. Hence, the Nuremberg Bible of 1483 had "allein durch den glauben," while the Italian Bibles of Geneva in 1476 and even 1538 had "per sola fede."
According to Mark Reasoner's book " Romans in Full Circle," said the trend began with Origen, who used the phrase ek mones pisteos in his commentary on the verse, So it seems "Origen originates the famous 'sola fide' phrase at 3:28" [Reasoner 2005:26]. Later on, Reasoner notes that at least ten exegetes between Origen and Luther also used the "faith alone" phrase.
Quotes from Luther on this
“If your papist wishes to make a great fuss about the word sola (alone), say this to him: "Dr. Martin Luther will have it so, and he says that a papist and a donkey are the same thing." …For we are not going to be students and disciples of the papists. Rather, we will become their teachers and judges. For once, we also are going to be proud and brag, with these blockheads; and just as Paul brags against his mad raving saints, I will brag against these donkeys of mine! Are they doctors? So am I. Are they scholars? So am I. Are they preachers? So am I. Are they theologians? So am I. Are they debaters? So am I. Are they philosophers? So am I. Are they logicians? So am I. Do they lecture? So do I. Do they write books? So do I.”
“I will go even further with my boasting: I can expound the psalms and the prophets, and they cannot. I can translate, and they cannot. I can read the Holy Scriptures, and they cannot. I can pray, they cannot. Coming down to their level, “I can use their rhetoric and philosophy better than all of them put together. Plus I know that not one of them understands his Aristotle. If any one of them can correctly understand one preface or chapter of Aristotle, I will eat my hat! No, I am not overdoing it, for I have been schooled in and have practiced their science from my youth. I recognize how deep and broad it is. They, too, are well aware that I can do everything they can do. Yet they treat me as a stranger in their discipline, these incurable fellows, as if I had just arrived this morning and had never seen or heard what they teach and know. How they do brilliantly parade around with their science, teaching me what I outgrew twenty years ago! To all their noise and shouting I sing, with the harlot, "I have known for seven years that horseshoe nails are iron."
“Let this be the answer to your first question. Please do not give these donkeys any other answer to their useless braying about that word sola than simply this: "Luther will have it so, and he says that he is a doctor above all the doctors of the pope." Let it rest there. I will from now on hold them in contempt, and have already held them in contempt, as long as they are the kind of people (or rather donkeys) that they are.”
You say no one knows where Mary’s tomb was. I beg to differ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary’s_Tomb
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Don’t try to make some law that says baptism is necessary for salvation.
The council of Jerusalem doesn’t indicate “any kind of centralized authority”?
Ok.
Like I said, I can’t imagine not seeing this, but some do, IMHO, for the reasons I stated earlier as well.
He did that by giving us Scripture.....
2 Timothy 3:14-17 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
I don’t really have any apology for writing starkly about outrageously stark blasphemous nonsense in the RC system or any other system.
It’s not a small thing to worship Mary.
I want to do everything I can to cry such an alarm rather than have someone blame me on judgment day because I didn’t make a bigger issue of it to try and cause them to think more seriously about it; more soberly about it.
It’s not just another ‘theological issue’ to calmly blather about.
You also seem to have failed to notice that I don’t get fierce with INDIVIDUALS posting assaults on me anywhere near their fierceness against me. I tweak back at them but mostly to let them know that their junk has not gone unnoticed.
Nevertheless, suit yourself. I never have expected I’d win any popularity contests with you. You have often seemed to have very little clue about what makes me tick; my values; priorities; strengths or weaknesses. However, your assumptions are sometimes entertaining—particularly to those who know me best.
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands.This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Yeah, and Mohammad had vision and ascended into heaven and John Smith had visions and Angels and thousands see Mary in toast.
Faith apart from works does not mean faith alone.
It means that man’s works without faith in Jesus does not and cannot save.
And, it still doesn’t say faith alone.
And, we have a very different view of faith.
My faith is alive and active, not dead as James says in his letter.
How nice of them..Sorry we can not say the same thing.. on the day Catholics stand before Christ in judgement He will tell them "I never knew you" ..There will be no exception for 'ignorance "
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
My, my, my! Are we getting a little personal?
Memorare,
O piissima VirgoMaria,
non esse auditum a saeculo,
quemquam ad tua currentempraesidia,
tua implorantem auxilia,
tua petentem suffragia,
esse derelictum.
Ego tali animatus confidentia,
ad te,
Virgo Virginum, Mater,curro,
ad te venio,
coram te gemens peccator assisto.
Noli,Mater Verbi,
verba mea despicere;
sed audi propitia et exaudi.Amen.
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