Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish

Catholic Culture ^ | 11/22/11

[marshmallow]

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

sola scriptura is just another name for the man in the mirror is the ultimate authority.

[HossB86]

Catholic Church established 33ad.

You're short a "3" and some change, really.

Hoss

[narses]

Yep. The most High Holiness of ME. ME ME ME!

[CynicalBear]

>>what do you believe the “pure offering” that is offered among the nations is?<<

Prayer and praise from a pure heart. No more legality.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

D,

these guys never reveal their faith, other than of course believing “Jesus is their Lord and Savior”

of course, that gives them free reign to attack the Church and tell all sort of “untruths”.

we know who the father of lies is.

wouldn’t suprise me that it’s muslims, mormons, jw’s, SDA, that are just trying to make protestants look hateful and stupid. or it could really be hateful and stupid protestants.

who knows!

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

no, prayer existed in the OT.

Christians know it’s Jesus Christ.

[narses]

They are the Church of ME, the One, the Internet Truth. They are infallible theologians, perfect in their understanding and united ONLY in their hatred of the Apostolic Universal Church Christ gives us.

[HossB86]

sola scriptura is just another name for the man in the mirror is the ultimate authority.

Keep believing it if it makes you happy. You're still wrong, but if you're happy, I'm happy.

pssst... wanna know a secret? It means that scripture contains everything necessary for salvation.... there -- now you know. It has nothing to do with the "man in the mirror; it has everything to do with God almighty.

The reason the Roman Catholic Church hates it so is that it puts it out of a job that it claims to have but no one has ever needed.....

Hoss

[narses]

" No more legality. " Sayeth the self anointed ELDER and Talmudic scholar.

[annie laurie]

Love that Ockham [sic].

Ohhhh... you mean Occam's Razor. Either works.

"Occam's Razor" is named for William of Ockham. So, why the "[sic]"?

[rzman21]

St. Justin the Martyr writes around in his Dialogue with Trypho 180 A.D. that: CHAPTER XLI -- THE OBLATION OF FINE FLOUR WAS A FIGURE OF THE EUCHARIST. "And the offering of fine flour, sirs," I said, "which was prescribed to be presented on behalf of those purified from leprosy, was a type of the bread of the Eucharist, the celebration of which our Lord Jesus Christ prescribed, in remembrance of the suffering which He endured on behalf of those who are purified in soul from all iniquity, in order that we may at the same time thank God for having created the world, with all things therein, for the sake of man, and for delivering us from the evil in which we were, and for utterly overthrowing principalities and powers by Him who suffered according to His will. Hence God speaks by the mouth of Malachi, one of the twelve [prophets], as I said before, about the sacrifices at that time presented by you: 'I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands: for, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, My name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure offering: for My name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord: but ye profane it.' He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane . The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first. CHAPTER CXVII -- MALACHI'S PROPHECY CONCERNING THE SACRIFICES OF THE CHRISTIANS. IT CANNOT BE TAKEN AS REFERRING TO THE PRAYERS OF JEWS OF THE DISPERSION. "Accordingly, God, anticipating all the sacrifices which we offer through this name, and which Jesus the Christ enjoined us to offer, i.e., in the Eucharist of the bread and the cup, and which are presented by Christians in all places throughout the world, bears witness that they are well-pleasing to Him. But He utterly rejects those presented by you and by those priests of yours, saying, 'And I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands; for from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is glorified among the Gentiles (He says); but ye profane it.' Yet even now, in your love of contention, you assert that God does not accept the sacrifices of those who dwelt then in Jerusalem, and were called Israelites; but says that He is pleased with the prayers of the individuals of that nation then dispersed, and calls their prayers sacrifices. Now, that prayers and giving of thanks, when offered by worthy men, are the only perfect and well-pleasing sacrifices to God, I also admit. For such alone Christians have undertaken to offer, and in the remembrance effected by their solid and liquid food, whereby the suffering of the Son of God which He endured is brought to mind, whose name the high priests of your nation and your teachers have caused to be profaned and blasphemed over all the earth. But these filthy garments, which have been put by you on all who have become Christians by the name of Jesus, God shows shall be taken away from us, when He shall raise all men from the dead, and appoint some to be incorruptible, immortal, and free from sorrow in the everlasting and imperishable kingdom; but shall send others away to the everlasting punishment of fire. But as to you and your teachers deceiving yourselves when you interpret what the Scripture says as referring to those of your nation then in dispersion, and maintain that their prayers and sacrifices offered in every place are pure and well-pleasing, learn that you are speaking falsely, and trying by all means to cheat yourselves: for, first of all, not even now does your nation extend from the rising to the setting of the sun, but there are nations among which none of your race ever dwelt. For there is not one single race of men, whether barbarians, or Greeks, or whatever they may be called, nomads, or vagrants, or herdsmen living in tents, among whom prayers and giving of thanks are not offered through the name of the crucified Jesus. And then, as the Scriptures show, at the time when Malachi wrote this, your dispersion over all the earth, which now exists, had not taken place. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html It gives context to the Didache's proclamation within 30 years of St. Paul's epistles that: Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and celebrate the Eucharist after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."
1. Κατὰ κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου συναχθέντες κλάσατε ἄρτον καὶ εὐχαριστήσατε (Eucharist), προεξομολογησάμενοι τὰ παραπτώματα ὑμῶν, ὅπως καθαρὰ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν ᾐ. 2. πᾶς δὲ ἔχων τὴν ἀμφιβολίαν μετὰ τοῦ ἑταίρου αὐτοῦ μὴ συνελθέτω ὑμῖν, ἕως οὗ διαλλαγῶσιν, ἵνα μὴ κοινωθῇ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν. 3. αὕτη γάρ ἐστιν ἡ ῥηθεῖσα ὑπὸ κυρίου· Ἐν παντὶ τόπὼ καὶ χρόνῳ προσφέρειν μοι θυσίαν καθαράν. ὅτι βασιλεὺς μέγας εἰμί, λέγει κύριος, καὶ τὸ ὄνομά μου θαυμαστὸν ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσι. I'd argue this provides context to St. Paul's words in 1 Corinthians because in other places it parallels the relevant passage. Chapter 9. The Eucharist. Now concerning the Eucharist, give thanks this way. First, concerning the cup: We thank thee, our Father, for the holy vine of David Thy servant, which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever.. And concerning the broken bread: We thank Thee, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom; for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever.. But let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs." Why do this? You can't sin against a Stop sign?

[RnMomof7]

show me one ECF that attacked the doctrine of the Real Presence. the Didache, Ignatius and Justin Martyr all taught this prior to 150ad. show me one ECF who condemned this doctrine and taught that the Eucharist only “represented” the Body of Christ.

Ok then you show me where it is taught in the NT church in scripture ok??

The Didache refers to the Lord’s Supper as spiritual food and drink. There is no indication that the elements are transformed in anyway....their ceremony ..no 'consecration of the bread and wine here .....

"Celebrate the Eucharist as follows: Say over the cup: “we give you thanks, Father, for the holy vine of David, your servant, which you made known to us through Jesus your servant. To you be glory for ever”.

Over the broken bread say: “we give you thanks, Father, for the life and the knowledge which you have revealed to us through Jesus your servant. To you be glory for ever. As this broken bread scattered on the mountains was gathered and became one, so too, may your Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into your kingdom. For glory and power are yours through Jesus Christ for ever”.

Pope Gelasius seemed to think that the bread and wine in substance at consecration remained bread and wine a view shared by Jerome, Eustathius of Antioch. Serapion, Eusebius, Theodoret, J Athanasius, Ambrosiaster, Macanus of Egypt, ( Early Christian Doctrines J.N.D. Kelly)

[CynicalBear]

You gotta understand where that thought process comes from Hoss. You see, Catholics can’t think for themselves and have to have the guys in the pointy hats in Rome what to believe. So they don’t have any concept of those of us who can still think for ourselves.

[rzman21]

Oops! St. Justin the Martyr writes around in his Dialogue with Trypho 180 A.D. that: CHAPTER XLI -- THE OBLATION OF FINE FLOUR WAS A FIGURE OF THE EUCHARIST.

"And the offering of fine flour, sirs," I said, "which was prescribed to be presented on behalf of those purified from leprosy, was a type of the bread of the Eucharist, the celebration of which our Lord Jesus Christ prescribed, in remembrance of the suffering which He endured on behalf of those who are purified in soul from all iniquity, in order that we may at the same time thank God for having created the world, with all things therein, for the sake of man, and for delivering us from the evil in which we were, and for utterly overthrowing principalities and powers by Him who suffered according to His will. Hence God speaks by the mouth of Malachi, one of the twelve [prophets], as I said before, about the sacrifices at that time presented by you: 'I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands: for, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, My name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure offering: for My name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord: but ye profane it.' He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane . The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first.

CHAPTER CXVII -- MALACHI'S PROPHECY CONCERNING THE SACRIFICES OF THE CHRISTIANS. IT CANNOT BE TAKEN AS REFERRING TO THE PRAYERS OF JEWS OF THE DISPERSION. "Accordingly, God, anticipating all the sacrifices which we offer through this name, and which Jesus the Christ enjoined us to offer, i.e., in the Eucharist of the bread and the cup, and which are presented by Christians in all places throughout the world, bears witness that they are well-pleasing to Him. But He utterly rejects those presented by you and by those priests of yours, saying, 'And I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands; for from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is glorified among the Gentiles (He says); but ye profane it.' Yet even now, in your love of contention, you assert that God does not accept the sacrifices of those who dwelt then in Jerusalem, and were called Israelites; but says that He is pleased with the prayers of the individuals of that nation then dispersed, and calls their prayers sacrifices. Now, that prayers and giving of thanks, when offered by worthy men, are the only perfect and well-pleasing sacrifices to God, I also admit. For such alone Christians have undertaken to offer, and in the remembrance effected by their solid and liquid food, whereby the suffering of the Son of God which He endured is brought to mind, whose name the high priests of your nation and your teachers have caused to be profaned and blasphemed over all the earth. But these filthy garments, which have been put by you on all who have become Christians by the name of Jesus, God shows shall be taken away from us, when He shall raise all men from the dead, and appoint some to be incorruptible, immortal, and free from sorrow in the everlasting and imperishable kingdom; but shall send others away to the everlasting punishment of fire. But as to you and your teachers deceiving yourselves when you interpret what the Scripture says as referring to those of your nation then in dispersion, and maintain that their prayers and sacrifices offered in every place are pure and well-pleasing, learn that you are speaking falsely, and trying by all means to cheat yourselves: for, first of all, not even now does your nation extend from the rising to the setting of the sun, but there are nations among which none of your race ever dwelt. For there is not one single race of men, whether barbarians, or Greeks, or whatever they may be called, nomads, or vagrants, or herdsmen living in tents, among whom prayers and giving of thanks are not offered through the name of the crucified Jesus. And then, as the Scriptures show, at the time when Malachi wrote this, your dispersion over all the earth, which now exists, had not taken place. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

It gives context to the Didache's proclamation within 30 years of St. Paul's epistles that: Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and celebrate the Eucharist after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

1. Κατὰ κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου συναχθέντες κλάσατε ἄρτον καὶ εὐχαριστήσατε (Eucharist), προεξομολογησάμενοι τὰ παραπτώματα ὑμῶν, ὅπως καθαρὰ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν ᾐ. 2. πᾶς δὲ ἔχων τὴν ἀμφιβολίαν μετὰ τοῦ ἑταίρου αὐτοῦ μὴ συνελθέτω ὑμῖν, ἕως οὗ διαλλαγῶσιν, ἵνα μὴ κοινωθῇ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν. 3. αὕτη γάρ ἐστιν ἡ ῥηθεῖσα ὑπὸ κυρίου· Ἐν παντὶ τόπὼ καὶ χρόνῳ προσφέρειν μοι θυσίαν καθαράν. ὅτι βασιλεὺς μέγας εἰμί, λέγει κύριος, καὶ τὸ ὄνομά μου θαυμαστὸν ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσι.

I'd argue this provides context to St. Paul's words in 1 Corinthians because in other places it parallels the relevant passage.

Chapter 9. The Eucharist. Now concerning the Eucharist, give thanks this way. First, concerning the cup: We thank thee, our Father, for the holy vine of David Thy servant, which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever.. And concerning the broken bread: We thank Thee, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom; for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever.. But let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs." Why do this? You can't sin against a Stop sign?

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Hoss,

you seem to be a learned man, maybe you can answer a question i have asked on here for a while that no one seems to be able to answer.

the Scriptures do not contain an inspired table of contents to tell us which books belong in the canon and which do not. many books that claim to be scripture are not in the Bible and many books are in the Bible that don’t claim to be scripture.
given that, who if anybody ( human person or institution ) can infallibly state what the true canon of Scripture is?
if the answer is no one can, how can you be sure what you hold in your hand is really the word of God?
if the answer is yes, who has that authority and where did they get it from?

i’d really like an answer and no one can give me one.

[narses]

More cut-n-paste without attribution. Why? Unable to follow even simple, secular rules?

[narses]

[D-fendr]

Hoss,

I really cannot join you in minimizing the differences between Dispensationalists. To say they differ little on salvation is to gloss over the great divide. One cannot see one call another teaching satanic and say they are not that different at the same time.

This is from a very prominent dispensationalist about another branch.

Wrongly Dividing The Word of Truth by H A Ironside

"So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth…
"I cannot conceive of anything more Satanic than this…
Surely this is a masterpiece of Satanic strategy, whereby under the plea of rightly dividing the Word of Truth, the Scriptures are so wrongly divided that they cease to have any message for God's people today, and the Word of the Lord is made of no effect by this unscriptural tradition…
"Personally, I reject it as a Satanic perversion calculated to destroy the power of the Word of God over the souls of His people.
"Many Bullingerites boldly advocate the sleep of the soul between death and resurrection, the annihilation of the wicked, or, as we have seen, universal salvation of all men and demons, the denial of the eternal Sonship of the Lord Jesus Christ, and, gravest of all, the personality of the Holy Spirit." 

Again, my point is that if sola scriptura is based on the same authority, it cannot result in such radically different religions, or interpretations. You cannot have the same authority saying one is the word of God and the other is from satan. This example illustrates that sola scriptura is incredibly unworkable as a framework for One Faith, One Church.

[narses]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2813173/posts

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (the Didache), 9:2; 14:1, circa 90 A.D.:
Regarding the Eucharist ... Let no one eat and drink of your Eucharist but those baptized in the name of the Lord; to this, too, the saying of the Lord is applicable: Do not give to dogs what is sacred.
On the Lord’s own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure. However, no one quarreling with his brother may join your meeting until they are reconciled; your sacrifice must not be defiled. For here we have the saying of the Lord: In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice; for I am a mighty King, says the Lord; and my name spreads terror among the nations. [Mal 1:11,14

“do not give to dogs what is sacred”?

if it was just “bread”, unbelievers could eat it.

uh oh, what do i see, the word “SACRIFICE”...”SO YOUR SACRIFICE MAY BE PURE”

uh oh, way before that evil RCC came about in the 4th century.