Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: RegulatorCountry; spankalib
"They're both true, dependent upon one's frame of reference. God has known what "happened" (interesting shift of tense there, that actually strikes to the heart of the matter) since the foundation of the world. God has acted upon this world and continues to do so. The ultimate outcome is not in question, never was and never can be, from God's frame of reference."

No, my FRiend, they are not both true. By intent, these two perspectives are mutually exclusive. The law of the excluded middle and "a is not non-a" and all of that. The perspective painted by the Scriptures is that God has designs and executes everything that occurs; He really is Sovereign and Transcendent. That is why He can tell believers that He is causing all things to work together for good for those of us called according to His purpose. This is monumental for confidence in the future.

Unfortunately (?), while God has decided to hold us accountable for our decisions, they are not ours, "alone". This struggle is what Paul anticipates in Rom. 9, when he says, "You will say to me then, 'How can He still find fault?' for who resists His will?" Yes, good question.

Answer: Too bad, get over it. He can do whatever He wants; remember He is God, not you. And, because He is the definition of just, we are to bend the knee.

This is often the reason for a strong Arminianism in a person. They simply cannot allow such deprication of themselves. They need to feel the power of "their" choices. That they are manipulated seems too demeaning. So, they settle for the the mish-mash of both answers. The world laughs at such goofy tendencies...which of course is itself even managed by God. The thing which you perceive as "choice", is the outcome of you being managed by your Hevenly Father...for good or evil. If you are among the elect, then good; if not, then evil.

No, they are not competing, at all. One is right, the other wrong. By holding to, "a little bit of both", you have opted for the "free will" view. There is no middle ground other than in your imagination.

That you wish not to discuss this with familiy members who hold differing views does not change that divine determinism is what the Scriptures describe. And, of course, it calls you to do this thing we call "choosing". The question is...what is happening while you are doing so.

This, incidentally, is not Calvinism. And, it is not Pauliolatry. That Calvin described what Paul's argument was simply points out that it has been around since God divulged it to Paul. It is God's view.

189 posted on 11/21/2011 9:31:56 AM PST by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies ]


To: Dutchboy88; MarkBsnr

I’ll respond to your earlier post when I finish the response. However this:

“This is often the reason for a strong Arminianism in a person. They simply cannot allow such deprication of themselves. They need to feel the power of “their” choices.”

is folly.

I’ve never met a non-Calvinist who boasted of being saved by God. However, I have met Calvinists on this forum who say God loves them and hates others...don’t know why, but they are God’s pets. He just LOVES them more.

Why? Smile, shrug...the implication being ‘we’re better than the others, because God loves us more’:

Jesus loves me, yes its true
Jesus loves me more than you!
Jesus says that you’re depraved,
And He won’t let you be saved!

Yes, Jesus loves me
Yes, Jesus loves me
Yes, Jesus loves me
He loves me more than you!


200 posted on 11/21/2011 4:24:05 PM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 189 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson