“But in memorizing much of the Scriptures, I started to see that it was not me that gave me faith, but God that gives it (Romans 12:3) and not only that but a measure of Grace was given also (Ephesians 4:7).”
Well, then I suggest starting by looking at the context.
Romans 12:
3For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them...
The measure of faith refers to spiritual gifts, which is the subject of that paragraph.
Ephesians 4:7 likewise:
7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8Therefore it says,
“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”
9( In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ...
Saving faith is NEVER described as coming from God. If it does, why did God hide that fact? Why do we see verses, hundreds of them, saying things like:
“13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit...”
You. Subject. Heard and believed. Verbs. Subjects DO verbs. Subjects do not RECEIVE verbs.
“Psalm 14 and 53 showed that no one came to God on their own without His help.”
I strongly agree. If God did not reach down to us, none of us would even bother to try looking up. But when God reaches down to us, does he do so knowing he will not allow most of us to respond?
What does Jesus say?
“14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”
WHOEVER. If Jesus meant, “Those that I picked must believe, because I will irresistibly give them faith, and give it to no others”, then Jesus lied when he said “whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”
“I have not heard your biblical interpretation of the words ‘Predestined’, ‘Elect/Election’ and ‘Adoption’.”
We are predestined, IN CHRIST, to become like the Son. IN CHRIST, we are the Elect, adopted by God. IN CHRIST.
This is from Zondervan’s NIV Life in the Spirit Study Bible:
“Election. God’s choice of those who believe in Christ is an important teaching of the apostle Paul (see Ro 8:29-33; 9:6-26; 11:5, 7, 28; Col 3:12; 1 Th 1:4; 2 Th 2:13; Tit 1:1). Election (Gk eklego) refers to God choosing in Christ a people whom he destines to be holy and blameless in his sight (cf. 2 Th 2:13). Paul sees this election as expressing God’s initiative as the God of infinite love in giving us as finite creation every spiritual blessing through the redemptive work of his Son (1:3-5). Paul’s teaching about election involves the following truths:
(1) Election is Christocentric, i.e., election of humans occurs only in union with Jesus Christ. “He chose us in him” (Eph. 1:4; see 1:1, note). Jesus himself is first of all the elect of God. Concerning Jesus, God states, “Here is my servant whom I have chosen” (Mt 12:18; cf. Isa 42:1, 6; 1 Pet 2:4). Christ, as the elect, is the foundation of our election. Only in union with Christ do we become members of the elect (Eph 1:4, 6-7, 9-10, 12-13). No one is elect apart from union with Christ through faith.
(2) Election is “in him…through his blood” (Eph 1:7). God purposed before creation (Eph. 1:4) to form a people through Christ’s redemptive death on the cross. Thus election is grounded on Christ’s sacrificial death to save us from our sins (Ac 20:28; Ro 3:24-26).
(3) Election in Christ is primarily corporate, i.e., an election of a people (Eph 1:4-5, 7, 9). The elect are called “the body of Christ” (4:12), “my church” (Mt 16:18), “a people belonging to God” (1 Pe 2:9), and the “bride” of Christ (Rev 19:7). Therefore, election is corporate and embraces individual persons only as they identify and associate themselves with the body of Christ, the true church (Eph 1:22-23; see Robert Shank, Elect in the Son, [Minneapolis: Bethany House Publishers]). This was true already of Israel in the OT (see Dt 29:18-21, note; 2Ki 21:14, note; see article on God’s Covenant with the Israelites, p. 298).
(4) The election to salvation and holiness of the body of Christ is always certain. But the certainty of election for individuals remains conditional on their personal living faith in Jesus Christ and perseverance in union with him. Paul demonstrates this as follows.
(a) God’s eternal purpose for the church is that we should “be holy and blameless in his sight” (Eph 1:4). This refers both to forgiveness of sins (1:7) and to the church’s purity as the bride of Christ. God’s elect people are being led by the Holy Spirit toward sanctification and holiness (see Ro 8:14; Gal. 5:16-25). The apostle repeatedly emphasizes this paramount purpose of God (see Eph 2:10; 3:14-19; 4:1-3, 13-24; 5:1-18).
(b) Fulfillment of this purpose for the corporate church is certain: Christ will “present her to himself as a radiant church…holy and blameless” (Eph 5:27).
(c) Fulfillment of this purpose for individuals in the church is conditional. Christ will present us “holy and blameless in his sight” (Eph 1:4) only if we continue in the faith. Paul states this clearly: Christ will “present you holy in his sight without blemish…if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel” (Col 1:22-23).
(5) Election to salvation in Christ is offered to all (Jn 3:16-17; 1Ti 2:4-6; Tit 2:11; Heb 2:9) but becomes actual for particular persons contingent on their repentance and faith as they accept God’s gift of salvation in Christ (Eph 2:8; 3:17; cf. Ac 20:21; Ro 1:16; 4:16). At the point of faith, the believer is incorporated into Christ’s elect body (the church) by the Holy Spirit (1 Co 12:13), thereby becoming one of the elect. Thus, there is both God’s initiative and our response in election (see Ro 8:29, note; 2 Pet 1:1-11).
Predestination. Predestination (Gk prooizo) means “to decide beforehand” and applies to God’s purposes comprehended in election. Election is God’s choice “in Christ” of a people (the true church) for himself. Predestination comprehends what will happen to God’s people (all genuine believers in Christ).
(1) God predestines his elect to be: (a) called (Rom. 8:30); (b) justified (Ro 3:24, 8:30); (c) glorified (Ro 8:30); (d) conformed to the likeness of his Son (Ro 8:29); (e) holy and blameless (Eph 1:4); (f) adopted as God’s children (1:5); (g) redeemed (1:7); (h) recipients of an inheritance (1:14); (i) for the praise of his glory (Eph 1:2; 1 Pe 2:9); (j) recipients of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13; Gal 3:14); and (k) created to do good works (Eph 2:10).
(2) Predestination, like election, refers to the corporate body of Christ (i.e., the true spiritual church), and comprehends individuals only in association with that body through a living faith in Jesus Christ (Eph 1:5, 7, 13; cf. Ac 2:38-41; 16:31).
Summary. Concerning election and predestination, we might use the analogy of a great ship on its way to heaven. The ship (the church) is chosen by God to be his very own vessel. Christ is the Captain and Pilot of this ship. All who desire to be a part of this elect ship and its Captain can do so through a living faith in Christ, by which they come on board the ship. As long as they are on the ship, in company with the ship’s Captain, they are among the elect. If they choose to abandon the ship and Captain, they cease to be part of the elect. Election is always only in union with the Captain and his ship. Predestination tells us about the ship’s destination and what God has prepared for those remaining on it. God invites everyone to come aboard the elect ship through faith in Jesus Christ.”
I think that gives a fairly simple discussion of corporate election. I prefer to think of it as tribal, because the Jews were a tribal people, and tribes still use some of the same terminology. When Paul wrote that we were “in Adam”, from a tribal perspective, he was simply stating a fact. And we need to ‘leave’ the Adam tribe and ‘join’ the Jesus tribe - which we can only do because Jesus wants us and initiates the action.
I knew that was coming. If one saves themselves by their choice, then they can unsave themselves by their choice as well. Of course, this presupposes that they are more powerful (in their choice) than God the Father who has them in His hand (John 10:29) in the first place.
I prefer to think of it as tribal
IE that Election is not Personal. Therefore one could only say that Jesus loved us Tribally and not personally. That is the other place that logic is going.
For me, I cannot deny His love is personal. It is most deeply so and my belief is that He puts this love in His elect as part of the new heart which He gives them. For the old heart was like Stone and wanted nothing to do with Him. Do you think that I have forgotten what that was like?
We believe in one can have absolute assurance of Salvation and going to heaven. The Evidence is our faith, which God has implanted in us so we could believe He died on the Cross for OUR (personal) sins.
Before, I leave this discussion (for either one trusts God for Salvation or one trusts in the sandy foundation in their choice), I leave you with the statement of a very Elderly lady at a nursing home where I was teaching a bible study.
She said, 'if you have any unconfessed sin in your heart when you die you will not go into heaven'. I asked her 'how she will know that' since "The heart is desperately wicked and who can know it" Jeremiah 17:9, that only one sin would be enough to prevent entry, and that the wife had seen folks thrashing on their death beds wondering whether they had gotten them all out and whether they were going to heaven while dying.
For you see, one either trusts in what God has done - all the way - Personally, or is trusting on the shifting sands.
Farewell.